MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > I don't understand the transgender argum...

I don't understand the transgender argument that some people give.


First, I must say, I am not one of these anti-transgender people. I believe they deserve the same rights as everyone else and it bothers me when people ridicule them. I would never change seats if one sat beside me and I would never not hire one because they are.

Here's what I don't understand: the argument that if a man transitions to a woman, they are now 100% woman. Also, vice-versa.

To me, I look at transgender people like they have a mental illness. If someone claimed to see people who weren't there, it's a mental illness. Anorexia is a mental illness. Self harm is a mental illness. Depression is a mental illness. Doctors themselves say that it's gender dysphoria but somehow saying that being transgender is a mental illness and not believing they are 100% the sex that they transition to, is considered offensive. Does a woman who gets breast implants have real breasts? No. When we say fake breasts we know what it means. If someone loses a limb and gets a prosthetic replacement, it's a fake body part. If I go around believing I am a baby, and I start acting like one, there isn't a single person out there who would think that it's normal behaviour to be that way even though I once was a baby. It's reasons like this why I don't think it's right to ridicule someone with gender dysphoria because it's a mental illness like all the others.

What is the problem with saying someone is a transgender man or woman? Why do we as a society believe (or lead to believe) that once you change your gender, you are now that gender to an absolute?

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I agree with you for the most part. I don't think the medical profession's current approach to it makes any sense at all.

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I agree with the gender dysphoria part. But the "creation" of a new gender is where I think there is a hypocrisy.

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That's weird. In many Asian cultures, the third gender, that is not male and not female, is actually pretty much accepted. Some places, like in parts Celebes island for example, even make third gendered people to have special rights and duties in society. It's not even called trans gender, because it's considered as a real gender. There are not one, not two, but three genders.

The West may be too influenced by Abrahamic religions that stated that God created man and woman, so it would be really hard to think otherwise.

It's like insisting that types of vehicles are always car or truck, and nothing else. But then there are things like, suv and crossovers, minibus, or even tanks, ATV, etc. How about car-like trucks, or truck-like cars? Why a vehicle must always conform to one of only 2 types? That's absurd.

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That’s interesting kamen. What about other species? Is there a third gender amongst them?

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Except that it has nothing to do with religion, but with the fact that nature has created only two genders. Then there are also hermaphrodites, but most transgenders are not born with that condition. Nothing absurd with accepting the facts of nature. Kind of silly to insist there are more than 2 genders, when science says there aren't.

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I agree, Stratego. To me it's man, woman and hermaphrodite. Other than than, you're either a transgender man or woman.

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I don’t understand it much either, but as long as something doesn’t affect me personally, or hurt other people, I just don’t care what life choices people make.
I do think all the different categories people use to identify their sexuality is extreme, but again, it doesn’t affect me so I don’t care.
It sucks people feel the need to ridicule a trans person for being different, but society has come a long way since the Matthew Shepard days. I never thought I’d be alive to see gay marriage get legalized. There will always be assholes, but I think people have become much more accepting of these differences than they used to be.

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I don't care what people do with their lives either as long as they're not hurting anyone also, but we now seem forced to call someone who transitions by their new sex. There are times where I see someone on TV who used to be a man but is now a woman but they still look completely like a man. If all I see is a man, am I really ignorant?

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No, I don’t think that makes you ignorant at all. I worked with a guy who identified with being a female. I had no idea which sex she was because she was very androgynous. One day on break she was complaining to me about all the girls calling her dude. I told her it was a silly complaint because girls and guys are called dudes, no big deal. I never would’ve asked her what sex she was, not my business, but I wouldn’t play along with the “feel sorry for me because I’m trans” bullshit. People weren’t making fun of her, they just legitimately didn’t know whether she was male or female.

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I'm willing to treat any individual as they wish to be treated, just as long as their lifestyle and identification doesn't pose a real threat to others.

For the most part that is the case with transgender individuals, but then you get into the argument of single-sex changing rooms, prisons and swimming facilities, where some cis women have some legitimate concerns about sharing private facilities with trans women. That is not to say I necessarily agree with them, but I sympathise with some of their arguments.

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Yeah, the bathroom/changeroom thing opens up a whole other can of worms.

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It's a difficult one, and one where I can see both points of view.

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I agree, it's a mental illness. Similar to those people who want a limb to be amputated so they can look the way they feel like in their head. There's no need to ridicule these people, but I don't get why we all need to pretend with them, like playing along with a child who still believes in Santa.

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Exactly. I feel bad for the people who feel that they don't feel like they're the sex they were born with. I wouldn't treat them any different than someone with depression.

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I dont understand the "argument" in the first place. There's nothing to debate. Trans peeps have their views and perspective, views that are not negative toward others, so I respect their views. Thats that.

I mention negative views against others because I dont respect those, like racism for example.

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I've known a couple of people who made the transition. The told me they never felt comfortable with their birth sex, even when they were children. It's difficult to explain how this happens in the first place. Sometimes nature makes a mistake I guess.

I feel bad that Trump has banned transgender people from the military. What's the problem??

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I don't understand banning transgenders from the military either. Men and women are allowed, why not transgenders seeing how either way they fall into either of those categories.

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Nobody is in favor of treating people badly. It comes down to a difference of opinion about what's best for people. For example, "transphobes" simply believe it is not in our best interest to facilitate a delusional mental illness. They aren't going to stab someone for being a transgender. Haven't we been exposed to enough hate crime hoaxes? I wish we could quit feeling the need to be so defensive about this.

I think transgender is very unhealthy and that we should be looking into the causes so we can try to prevent it. I also think the medical industry is taking advantage of well meaning parents by manipulating them into believing that a child can "transform" by taking some hormone pills. It's not that simple. It's a lifetime of therepy and complications from those pills. It's extremely expensive and I don't want to pay for it especially when doctors are being decietful about it.

I think we also have to accept that accommodating pressure groups never works. Unisex bathrooms have not shut them up. They actually argue that they need women-only bathrooms so they can have "the full experience of being female". Our whole society is built around gender segregation, so this is never going to stop. We need to put our feet down.

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Of course no one is in favour of treating people badly, but sadly, people do it.

Funny you bring up therapy. Conversion therapy is often considered unacceptable but I don't see how that is any different than someone who is depressed going to a psychiatrist to rid themselves of their depression.

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