Whom will Manafort turn over to Mueller? Ivanka, Jared or Donnie Diapers? - Donald Trump Discussion

[–] dlancer (2036) 6 years ago

As much as I'd like to see Kushner go down in flames, he's too deep in the pockets of Israel and the Saudis for Mueller to get to him.

So I guess it comes down to which of the other two have the heavier infractions, though neither compare to Kushner's.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

IMO it's more likely Cohen will be the one to deliver the goods on Trump family members since he was far more integral to their day to day lives and business dealings. Incidentally, we learned the icing on the cake yesterday when it was revealed that Cohen had in fact been talking to Mueller for awhile now. He initiated the approach himself through his lawyer after being repeatedly frustrated by Mueller having kept his distance and the SDNY prosecutors being utterly uninterested in anything he could offer to lessen his sentencing.

So it's hard not to imagine the sort of explosive information Cohen had to dangle just to get Mueller interested in talking to him, while on his knees, begging for leniency. He surely offered up the crown jewels (his kids) in total cooperation.

I think Manafort is paramount to nailing Trump himself on collusion. Unlike Cohen, he was indispensable in the planning and coordination of the Trump Tower meeting, known for taking meticulous notes, and familiar with all the Russian intel figures present. It's public knowledge he'd been working for Kremlin interests, essentially as a Russian asset for the last 15 years. The importance of this 'get' by Mueller can't be understated. This is underscored by the fact that Mueller went after him hard from the outset, issuing a no knock warrant and search of Manafort's home in July '17, mere months after being appointed to lead the investigation. We know Manafort had been under FISA surveillance prior to joining Trump's campaign for his suspicious Kremlin ties, and he continued to keep in daily communication with Trump even after he left his campaign. All signs points to Mueller knowing from intel sources that Manafort was the lynchpin behind any efforts of collusion. That's why he assigned his top prosecutor, the indefatigable bulldog Andrew Weismann to flip him. I love how Weismann spent 40 minutes in court yesterday detailing the litany of crimes Manafort was confessing to. Flipping Manafort is his Magnum Opus.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I’m thinking he’s going to hand over Diapers from the meeting in June ‘16. Then they’ll get to T-rump? I can’t wait to see this unravel.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Ah yes, good point given Junior's integral role in organizing that meeting and Kushner's presence. I think Don Jr is the more obvious immediate target.

It will be fascinating to watch this unfold, given the amount of strategic planning on which dominoes might fall vs what might be counterproductive based on who Mueller chooses to indict next. It's like the deep end game of a chess match, where Mueller has to consider and take all these details into account and be prepared for the possibilities. With Manafort in the fold, he probably has the pick of the litter on whoever he wants to to indict next. But it's an open question as to how he should play his cards if his ultimate prize is to take down the president when the only option is impeachment or surmounting enough pressure that he resigns the presidency in exchange for indemnity.

But there's always the wildcard of a possible Saturday Night Massacre scenario that needs to be accounted for. With a Republican congress there's no reason to expect that would similarly turn out to be the harbinger for congress to pressure him into resigning like what happened with Nixon.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

And we all know how well the SNM did for Nixon back then. That actually helped push the end of his presidency to the finish line. T-rump better be careful.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yes, but with the carte blanche of this congress full of craven Republicans ready to piss their pants rather than confront Trump and his army of Russian trolls? I can see why he'd take his chances with a Saturday night massacre instead of playing the sitting duck.

Interestingly, Trump's silence has been deafening regarding Manafort flipping.

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

True what you say about SNM. I didn’t think of it that way.

Yes he’s been quiet -only a matter of time before he rips him to shreds like he did Cohen.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yes but the silence itself is deafening in its idiosyncrasy. What to make of it?

I think his reticence signals he's scared shitless contemplating how to handle Manafort. He has to be seriously considering pulling the desperation maneuver of a premature pardon and he's afraid of attacking Manafort prematurely because he knows Manafort can bury him. Also, it was revealed that Manafort and Trump's lawyers had been sharing information for months under a Joint Defense Agreement so I think he's hanging by a thread that maybe Paul won't give him up.

What other plausible explanation could there be for not reverting to his typical form with guns blazing on Manafort?

reply

[–] dlancer (2036) 6 years ago

I think his silence is due to his multitude of lawyers going full babysitter mode on him.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yeah I've seen that speculation in some quarters, but I'm not fully on board since his lawyers have NEVER been able to reign him in before. Why now?

reply

[–] dlancer (2036) 6 years ago

Maybe because he's in some real shit now, lol.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

Yah it finally hits him 20 months deep that he's really got in over his head this time. d0h! :)

reply

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

I think you’re absolutely right. Good points eYeDEF!!

reply

[–] AckbartheHutt (1370) 6 years ago

Here is one right here with multiple sox.

reply

[–] beatrixkc (10) 6 years ago

I fear you're vastly overestimating Trump's ability for critical thinking and advanced problem solving.

If anything....he's pilfering what he can, while he can -- and his pardon's touch nothing on a state level...his attorneys have to have gotten it through his thick skull Manafort's flip gives him borrowed time.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

LOLZ! You could be right. What do you think he's so busy pilfering that's taken priority over even his twitter time?

reply

[–] AckbartheHutt (1370) 6 years ago

Chaffetz said, "discussions with foreign leaders regarding international missile tests, and documents used to support those discussions, are preemptively sensitive," and gave a deadline date of Feb. 28 for the White House to respond.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16973) 6 years ago

From the conservative news I've skimmed on, his flipping will not implicate Trump. Still nothing against him, yet. It's come to the point in the investigation and from what I have seen, he's going to finish his 1st term in office for sure, no doubt about that. Don't know why people keep wasting their time thinking he's going to get impeached. I always keep seeing the left giddy when they think something is going to happen but it never does. I have high confidence nothing will happen at least for his 2nd year in office (nearing October already).

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

You can't be serious. How would conservative media even know? What phantom facts do they even try to base such an assertion of fiction on? Trump's word? LMAO! Dude, when has conservative media ever been right on Trump? They've been priming his innocence from the get go. How innocent does he look to you? Conservative media have subordinated themselves to the role of compliant and uncritical Trump propaganda mouthpieces, happy to unquestioningly peddle his bullshit and fiction for their access. They are quintessential fake news. I'm surprised you'd bother to take anything they say about Trump seriously.

Even Dershowitz, who has been the biggest Trump apologist on the planet, says the Manafort flip is devastating for him.

Trump has even admitted this. NBC News reported in January that Trump was telling friends in private phone calls that one of the reasons he could "crush" the Mueller investigation is that Manafort was not going to "flip" on him.

WASHINGTON — Donald Trump is telling friends and aides in private that things are going great — for him.

Some reasons: He's decided that a key witness in the Russia probe, Paul Manafort, isn't going to "flip" and sell him out, friends and aides say. He believes Robert Mueller, who heads the investigation, can be crushed, if necessary, without being fired.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2018-state-of-the-union-address/state-donald-trump-he-thinks-it-couldn-t-be-better-n842501

If Dems win back the House, they'll be under a ton of pressure to pass articles of impeachment.

reply

[–] Rorikon (16973) 6 years ago

To me Trump looks innocent from the evidence presented. Sure, it's still an ongoing process but we're nearing his 2 year term already and nothing really substantial has come up to implicated Trump himself. From what I can see, he's gotten everyone else to do the dirty work for him so he's pretty much clean imo. Most of everyone he surrounds himself with though has done some form of criminal activity. Anyway, my point is liberals/MSM are picking at straws here atm.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/entertainment/michael-moore-fahrenheit-11-9-donald-trump/index.html

I know he'll finish his first term (call it a prediction but it's more of a gut feeling of assurance) but if Moore is saying he can win the 2nd term then you know shit isn't right. Left is still doing stuff that got the kind of guy like Trump elected in the first place so I wouldn't be surprised if he won again. Worse thing is to underestimate what he's capable of now. Don't need another compilation of lefties saying he'll never win and then going berserk thereafter.

That's a big if though so I guess we'll come November. It'll be an interesting watch for sure.

reply

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 6 years ago

I'm really confused by how you arrive at your conclusion that he 'looks innocent' Rory. To meet the legal standard for conspiracy aka "collusion" as it's commonly colloquially referred, Trump would only need to be aware at the time of the Don Jr meeting in Trump Tower as it happened.

You seem like a pretty open minded guy, so I'm flabbergasted at how you are able to convince yourself that Trump didn't know about that meeting when his denials have never been believable and all circumstantial evidence to date suggests that Trump did know. How do you explain that just a few days before the meeting happened he gave a speech promising dirt on Clinton? This has been widely and repeatedly reported. He was there that day, 3 floors up, are you seriously trying to say with a straight face he didn't know about it?

And are you seriously suggesting that Don Jr didn't inform his father he had set up this big meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Clinton in order to insulate his father? That is absolutely crazy if you do because that's textbook trumptard logic. This is his namesake who acts like a puppy constantly seeking his dad's approval, to think he didn't instantly inform his father of his great 'get' in order to protect him is ludicrous, as if that kid has enough brain cells to even consider possible fallout from word of the meeting leaking affecting his father when this is the same guy who dumped the entire email correspondence setting up that meeting on twitter completely oblivious to how the fallout might affect any plausible deniability by himself OR his father.

Steve Bannon even admitted to Michael Wolff that there's no way Don Jr didn't inform his father. “The chance that Don Jr. did not walk these Jumos up to his father’s office of the 26th floor is zero,”. Manafort was working corruptly for pro-Putin interests. He was indebted to them and communicated with them during the campaign. The reality of Manafort flipping without flipping on Trump is even more ludicrous.

reply