When Margaret O'Sullivan called James Stewart "an insignificant clerk." I know she and he didn't get along at the beginning, but she seemed far ruder and dislikable than he did in some parts.
What do you think?
I was just viewing this movie last night and came upon the scene that you mentioned. She did seem quite rude to make that remark to him at the restaurant. Since he became a sort of rival at work, she probably was not on too friendly terms with him. Since he had just got fired, you would think that kind of remark was hurtful. It was probably made because her character was so enraptured with her vision of her pen pal. Also, the scriptwriter probably wanted to make the scene in the restaurant with more impact and to have the viewer believe that Jimmy Stewart would give up on her at that point since she cut him down.
Under most circumstances, I think she would have just told him that she was expecting someone and that she had no time to chat with him and to wish him well in finding a new job.
Of course it was rude. It was supposed to be rude. She was trying to get rid of him!
shareUh, I believe he told her that she was cold and snippy and would be an old maid?
And that's not rude? AND Kralik had a great deal more understanding of the
situation that she had. His comments were on the offensive, whereas she was
responding in a defensive manner.
The movie showed Kralik being far more affected by the comment about the
clerk ("You little insignificant clerk.") than Klara was by the assault on her
marriage-ability immediately. However, she was affected enough by it to be
unable to go to work the next day.
Possibly with another -lesser- actor ... one without the fine ability to let the audience see
the hurt the "insignificant clerk" line caused ... it might have seemed different.
But she was unable to go to work the next day because she believed her pen pal stood her up. Then he stopped writing (the insert of her hand in the empty letterbox). She was nursing a broken heart over her perfect man's disappearance, not over Kralik calling her names.
"It's that kind of idiocy that I empathize with." ~David Bowie
He only called her cold and snippy and brings up the old maid issue after she launched into her nasty little "I wouldn't care to scratch your surface Mr Kralik." tirade, and then admits she had been mocking him to the other employees behind his back.
He could have just walked away when he saw who she was from outside the cafe and left her sitting there. Instead he tried to talk to her and see if there might be something between them since they no longer worked together. She really was about as nasty and condescending as one person could be to another, and unnecessarily so.
And she skipped work because she was upset "Dear Friend" stood her up and hadn't written her, not because she felt bad about what she said.
[deleted]
I think it can't be coincidence that in 1946's "It's a Wonderful Life," Mr. Potter calls the Stewart character a "miserable little clerk." A joke by Capra, perhaps?
shareYeah I was taken aback by the remark also. It was rude, and I give the character a lot of credit for continuing to be smitten with her.
shareI thought that was supposed to be one of the places where she was trying to imitate the Comedie Francaise actress in the novel she'd been reading. She talks at the end about how ineffective this pose was for an ordinary sales girl.
I'm all right, I'm alllll right!
I thought so too. In all the scenes, she was extremely rude completely unprovoked. James Stewart's character was simply trying to keep up by being rude in return to her in each scene.
Definitely, if anybody had that much huge chip on the shoulder to near strangers (i.e. Stewart who was a mere coworker and she didn't know anything about him), I'd be totally turned off even she was just putting up a cold front and actually a warm person inside or whatever.
People are how they act, not who they think they're. There's no execuse to be that much rude and judgemental to the people you don't know anything about, I cannot imagine Stewart's character continuously putting up with it in real-life even with their love-affair via letters, and I though it's compeletely unrealistic. It sort of ruined my experience of enjoying this otherwise funny rom-comedy.
I'm sorry for my late reply.
Third Man99: I agree with you on all your points. It wasn't just in the dinner scene. Sullavan's character was bitchy even from the beginning. It also didn't help that she was squared off against Jimmy Stewart who played a lot of nice guy roles in his early stardom.
Offscreen, Sullavan's described as "firey," "dynamic," and "difficult," but there's something about her that's offsetting to me.
Judy Garland in the remake was a riot. Her character was oversensitive and overreacted a lot, but I love Judy Garland and also her character "suffered" quite a bit at the beginning of the movie, ex: being knocked down, having hair windblown and ruined, then Van Johnson accidentally riding off with her skirt caught on his bike.
With this scene, her snottiness is somewhat forgivable.
Yes it was rude but he claimed she was cold and would become an old maid etc. so although it was a callous remark, it was deserved in this case.
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
Yes it was rude but he claimed she was cold and would become an old maid etc. so although it was a callous remark, it was deserved in this case.
In any case, it was good that her character was at she was because that made the ending of the story so much for the better!
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
Yeah, I guess. By the way, what do you think of Margaret Sullavan?
share
I hate to say it but this is the only film I recall seeing of hers!
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
That's okay, you still have a right to an opinion. This is the only film I've seen of Margaret's, I didn't find her likeable in general so getting stuck with a character like Clara makde her look even more dislikable as opposed to Judy in the remake.
However, since I have seen only one film of Sullavan's, I'm keeping my mind open to her other films to see if they'll broaden my opinion of her.
I also felt the same way about Leslie Caron in "Father Goose"; she was so good playing the snooty, uptight "goody-two-shoes" that I didn't want to see her other films. But I gave "Lili," "The Glass Slipper," and her other films a chance and now I absolutely adore her!
Yes you're right. I really like the film but she's not exactly a totally likable character. I'd have to go back and see some of her other work before I would really know how I feel about her as an actress though.
Oh I just love Judy Garland in everything! You can't beat that. Everyone was talking about You Got Mail which is the most recent 're-make' and I disliked that one intensely.
I believe I've seen Lili but it's been years!
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
Yes you're right. I really like the film but she's not exactly a totally likable character. I'd have to go back and see some of her other work before I would really know how I feel about her as an actress though.
Oh I just love Judy Garland in everything! You can't beat that. Everyone was talking about You Got Mail which is the most recent 're-make' and I disliked that one intensely.
I believe I've seen Lili but it's been years!
Have you ever read anything about Henry Fonda? He was pretty unfaithful himself, not that I'm taking up for Margaret Sullivan but they were only married for two months. It's my understanding that he was very emotionally distant from his wives, children and many of his friends as well. He was married five times if I recall (vs. Sullivan's four husbands lol!) In any case, I think he was a great actor and always interesting in everything he was in.
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
Have you ever read anything about Henry Fonda? He was pretty unfaithful himself, not that I'm taking up for Margaret Sullivan but they were only married for two months. It's my understanding that he was very emotionally distant from his wives, children and many of his friends as well. He was married five times if I recall (vs. Sullivan's four husbands lol!) In any case, I think he was a great actor and always interesting in everything he was in.
Cool. Sorry I misunderstood!
I've only seen Mae West in a couple of things but I thought that she was great actually!
I'll tell you in another life, when we are both cats.
If you'd like to check out Margaret Sullavan in movies other than "Shop around the Corner",I suggest going to yt and viewing her in "Little man,what now",or "The Good Fairy".She is wonderful in both these films. Also, I just finished reading "Haywire" which was written by her daughter Brooke Hayward,and it was quite interesting.I think it just made Ms.Sullavan more human,to know she made some mistakes in her life and with her children,such as having them live in a seperate house (on the same property)with their nanny.
None of us are perfect,so I felt badly when her children up and left her.You just new she was trying to do her best for them,or at least what she thought was best at the time.
Mrs.H.L.(living in the 1920's in my dreams)
I'm not exactly a sympathizer of the Feminist movement, except in what I consider legitimate grievances by feminists; but even "male chauvinist pig" *me* considers rude behavior on the part of a women no worse than how we guys have often acted! Give the girl a break, like Stewart's character was magnanimous enough to do, for cryin' out loud!
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What does the feminist movement have to do with anything? This isn't about women's rights, so let's not get offtopic.
I don't much like the character of Klara, but that line of calling Alfred an "insignificant clerk" was going too far.
Pklarkins pointed out Klara merely made that remark to get ride of him. If that was the case, it's understandable, but I don't think Klara ever made that clear whether it was or not.
What's so "off topic" about making a brief allusion to something comparable between the more benign aspects of feminism and Klara's cruel remark? Feminists have made the valid point that men behaving badly is usually condoned and pardoned, whereas women (such as Klara) get excoriated for saying something no better or worse, and as petty and mean-spirited, as the type of behavior most men used to get away with since the dawn of time.
There was a clash between Stewart's character and Klara all the time they were working together and Klara probably felt he deserved the "insignificant clerk" verbal dagger.
Look, we both agree that it was a bitchy thing for her to say; I'm only parting company with you in that I don't think it's all that unforgiveable because "us guys" have gotten away with equally bad or worse.
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To start with, I'd like to apologize my very delayed reply.
What's so "off topic" about making a brief allusion to something comparable between the more benign aspects of feminism and Klara's cruel remark? Feminists have made the valid point that men behaving badly is usually condoned and pardoned, whereas women (such as Klara) get excoriated for saying something no better or worse, and as petty and mean-spirited, as the type of behavior most men used to get away with since the dawn of time.
Umm, okay. Seems you know a trick or two about invalidating any little quibble someone else makes that isn't aligned with your own opinions and precise methodology of determining what's "relevant" and what ISN'T "off-topic;" wish I were smart enough to try those tricks out, myself!
But what the heck, have a nice day.
Secret Message, HERE!-->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you. I just didn't agree with a lot of things you said.
shareIt's cool, F_R. I can be a bit whiny drama queen, at times, I suppose.
Let's try another tack, then, shall we?
Discounting everything I've already chipped in on the subject, it strikes me that the reason "miserable little clerk" Stewart was able to forgive her for being such a hag was there had still a mutual attraction between the two of them even from the very start of their association as co-workers, despite the fact that they each had their respective "pen pals" (and had not known until later that said "pen pals" were EACH OTHER!)
Don't even husbands and wives have their spats and say cruel things to one another, but usually make up later on? Is "making up" between spouses and other, amourous couples even possible without the willingness to forgive and forget? I think it takes an admirable amount of maturity, both on the Stewart character's part and on that of any wounded party in any kind of relationship, to be willing to forgive offenses to their wounded pride and, thus, not throw out the baby with the bath water. IF the relationship is salvageable, that is.
Secret Message, HERE!-->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!
I think somebody earlier hit the nail on the head when the "insignificant clerk" line was used strictly to show how women often treat men like dogs when they are attracted to said man.
Just because Klara didn't realize her attraction to Kralik on a surface level at the time, it did show that her attraction was surfacing.
Does this make Kralik less of a man for taking it, or more of a man for letting it go?
I thought she was really rude ..
when he calls her in old maid its only because she insulted him first.
i think she purposely enjoyed it ..she did say later she was falling for him at the end of the movie ,something about how she couldnt take her eyes off him.
so she was insulting but i think in love with him at the same time
"So, a thought crossed your mind? Must have been a long and lonely journey"share
I think part of the idea was that while he was now aware that the angel of the letters turned out to be Miss Novak, whom he saw as a shallow twerp, when she called him an "insignificant clerk" he realized there was also a big difference between the way he'd portrayed himself in the letters and how he really was.
Don't forget your tsvets!
That's a good point. He admitted to his friend earlier that he was guilty of maybe over-stating his position in his letters, one of his reasons for trying to get a raise from his boss.
However, how we behave and treat others day in and day out is who we really are. Alfred is a nice guy, and his other coworkers like and respect him (well, except for Vadas). But he ends up absorbing a lot of abuse and rudeness from Klara for no other reason than she reports to him. She really seems to have a superiority complex when it comes to Alfred that makes her character obnoxious in my opinion anyway. Her condescending and nasty attitude at calling him a little, insignificant clerk (who and what exactly is she?) may have brought him up short, but in reality it should have just been the last straw.
At least in "You Got Mail" Kathleen's animosity towards Joe is completely understandable, but despite it all, they are both decent people who are just caught up in a bad situation.
Were I Alfred, once I knew who "Dear Friend" actually was, I'd have breathed a huge sigh of relief over the bullet I had just dodged and moved on.
The old maid remark was rude as well. Klara did seem to make the nastier remarks and the comment about him being a insignificant clerk was a low blow, but it was clear that their animosity went back for quite a while. We don't know exactly everything that happened. She apparently started out teasing him to get his attention, but he reacted badly to it. Who knows what kind of nasty things he said to her. The first thing we actually saw was him scolding her for her clothes, which seemed rather unfair. Also, it seemed very much like he was trying to ruin her date.
shareHe was told by Matachek to remark on her blouse, and he couldn't "ruin her date". Without him there was no date.
shareI'm not sure why it matters that it was Matuschek's idea or that there was no real date. The point is that his behavior came across as rude to her. No need to compare anyone to a circus pony.
shareThat was after she argued the instruction. But the greater point is that people DO say things out of line "in the moment" that they later regret, and this whole concept was an antithetical romance, which means the romantic leads have to seriously dislike each other for the majority of the story ... at least one-sided, but the best antithetical romances have the antipathy going in both directions.
They hit on the whole "say things you later regret" concept much more strongly in "You've Got Mail", where that conversation comes up three or four times.
You REALLY want stories where everyone is perfect all the time? You'll get bored and stop watching movies and TV shows pretty quickly if that ever happens. LOL