The one line that bothered me... - An American in Paris (1951) Discussion

[–] blanche-2 17 years ago

Well, she admits that's why she can't turn him down. She loves Henri, but she's not in love with him. Henri fell for her when she became older, and she feels indebted to him as you state. I'm not sure why it bothered you. Basically I took these love interests as devices to get to the next song - I don't find the scripts of musicals as strong as non-musical scripts, unless you're talking about a Stephen Sondheim musical.

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[–] funkyfry 17 years ago

Totally disagree with you here, blanche-2, "American in Paris" was written by Alan Jay Lerner and it's almost as complex as "My Fair Lady" and "Gigi" and more complex than "Brigadoon" or "Camelot." In my opinion Lerner is one of the small handful of guys along with Oscar Hammerstein and Stephen Sondheim who actually could write books and scripts that were comparable to non-musical stories in complexity of character.

In point of fact, the character if Jerry is modeled after the character of Joey in John O'Hara's "Pal Joey" which had been such a huge hit for Kelly on stage with music by Rodgers and Hart. The character of Jerry isn't supposed to be entirely appealing. But we're talking about Lise and Henri. I don't understand why it would bother someone that Lise doesn't really love Henri. That's the whole crux of the melodrama, that's the problem with their relationship and that's why they don't end up together at the end of the film. I thought the film made itself pretty clear about that. Milo and Jerry are in a "user" relationship as we would say today -- Jerry uses Milo for her money and connections in the art world, and Milo uses Jerry to show off to her friends and imply that she's sleeping with this sexy artist. On the other hand we have a less cynical, but no less flawed, romance between Lise and Henri because it's based on respect and mutual admiration and not on passion. Thus Lerner presents two equally troublesome but completely different scenarios by which Jerry and Lise could potentially end up separated at the end of the story and it's the business of the songs themselves to resolve this melodrama. That's what made "American in Paris" revolutionary, even compared to Broadway shows of its time -- the fact that the resolution to the melodrama came through the ballet itself.

But no I really can't understand why Lise and Henri's relationship should be a problem for the audience, unless they're assuming that the authors somehow approve of the relationship (which wouldn't make any sense since they have Henri sacrificing himself figuratively at the end so that Lise and Jerry can be together).

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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[–] blanche-2 17 years ago

I certainly agree about Henri-Lise and Milo-Jerry and don't think I said anything different. Lise certainly did love Henri and feel gratitude for him, but it was not a romantic love.

As far as the writing of a book, I don't think Oscar Hammerstein was anywhere near Stephen Sondheim, and while I like Lerner, I don't think this particular book was anything special. What I don't understand is people complaining that a musical isn't realistic, as if it's realistic to begin with that people burst into song and dance all the time.

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[–] funkyfry 17 years ago

Yeah, I meant to agree with you about Lise and Henri, sorry if I made it sound otherwise. The only thing I disagree about is Lerner's book or script, I think it's fantastic. I haven't really seen enough of Sondheim's shows to comment on his books actually, I mostly just know his music except for a few shows I've been able to see on video. I just mean to say they play in the same league. At any rate I'm pretty sure Sondheim would be happy just to be compared to his mentor.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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[–] blanche-2 17 years ago

The important thing is that you enjoy it and take it for what it is and don't expect it to be something us. It's a beautiful movie, but some of the critiques I read seemed to want the book to be War and Peace.

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[–] funkyfry 17 years ago

It's not a big deal, it was just how you said that the book was just there to pass the time between the songs and I don't feel that way about it, I think it's a pretty strong movie. What I like is whent he book and the characters are strong enough that the music is an enhancement of the characters, the music really speaks to the emotions. When we talk about integration of the lyrics and the book or whatever, we sometimes focus too much on the way that the writers used the songs themselves to advance the story. Meaning literally plot elements being conveyed through the songs, which is what made Hammerstein's shows so different when he started going in that direction in the 1920s. But in the case of "An American in Paris" that's impossible because they were working with a pre-written catalogue of music and they weren't going to compromise the Gershwin songs by bringing in other songwriters like some films did. So the songs are just there to represent the emotions of the characters, and they're used in such a way in particular in the ballet to resolve the emotional situations as opposed to advancing the plot. That required a really specific task of writing from Lerner, using the great Gershwin songs in the best way to maximize their charm, irony, and romance. I can't think of another movie where someone was able to do that as successfully as they did here with any composer really.

I think the relationship between Lise and Henri is interesting because of the contrast between that relationship and the one between Jeri and Milo -- like I said, both are impossible but for totally different reasons. Yet they are both the kind of relationships that actually do work, and that you actually do see a lot in the "real" world. "Breakfast at Tiffany's" touched on this same theme I think, I watched it again last week and it reminded me of "American in Paris." The situation with the George Peppard character (who goes by several names in the film) and his "interior designer" is very similar to the one between Jerry and Milo, and there's a parallel scene where she brings him to his new apartment and !surprise! she's already designed it completely. This is like a male paranoid reaction, very natural, to having his environment controlled completely by the woman, but it represents in both films his shame at being indebted to a woman who has more money than he. So I think "American in Paris" was even influential on other classic movies, I doubt "Breakfast" is the only one if we thought about it. And that's mostly coming from the book, and the way the book went with the music to represent the character's inner lives as opposed to the story or the conscious ruminations of the characters.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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[–] blanche-2 17 years ago

Funkman - I think what I said was more a reaction to people who think the plot of a musical - more specifically, this musical - should be like War and Peace. I think I was saying there was so much to enjoy about it, why get so picky on things that in this venue, the musical, aren't important. If a musical is derived from War and Peace, okay, but that's a different story. "An American in Paris" was not intended to be a tragic, heavy story. Yes, a musical book can have some serious elements, but it's not the same as a straightforward drama or comedy because it has the added device of the music. Certainly Passion (based on a movie) and Grey Gardens (based on a documentary) are two musicals with heavy-duty plots, which is more of a tendency now than it was then. "Carousel" is a beautiful show with the plot of a play, Lilliom, but it's done in a very different manner than it would be if written today. "Showboat" is another one. Some musicals have some pretty sketchy books and characters that aren't particularly well wrtten. I don't think Curly and Laurie in Oklahoma are particularly well written characters, having done the show.

In London, Trevor Nunn did an Oklahoma and a South Pacific that concentrated on the "darker" aspects, and the results were less than good, giving rise to the old "the British don't know how to do American musicals" quote. Well, they don't if they insist on taking every bit of joy and lightness out of them. I just think you get the most out of something if you take it the way it was intended and don't pile layers on it that aren't really there.

This doesn't have much to do with anything, as I've forgotten the core of the discussion, except I guess that while I enjoyed "An American in Paris," I wasn't that blown away by the story but loved the dancing and the singing, romance and all the colors and especially the energy. I didn't care that Gene Kelly's art work looked like paint by numbers, nor did I feel the characters were unsympathetic as someone commented. To me these were just not issues, where in a drama with no music, they might have been. Why pick on me? Take a look at the first review on the film's page from December 2002.

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[–] funkyfry 17 years ago

oh hey I'm not picking you you blanche, I just like discussing this movie endlessly and I know that at least you'll respond with something intelligent. Not that many people post about Minnelli here, mainly me and arthicus it seems like. I can see your point I guess, there's no need to be super-critical of the details of a musical or any film for that matter really. If the overall effect of the piece works then why bother? But I guess people like to pick over details, the imdb has always been about that on some level.

In general though I feel like musicals can afford to stand up to the same scrutiny as other films or plays. As far as most of the shows of the 1920s and 30s which people often discount as far as the books are concerned, they are good shows when you consider them as light comedy which is really all they ever were. I like to think of the musical scene on Broadway at that time as a kind of extension of vaudeville. The very first musical stars were all vaudeville people, Weber and Fields for example, or a bit later Will Rogers, Bert Williams, Fanny Brice of the "Ziegfeld" shows. The Marx Brothers started out in musical comedy after doing vaudeville and before movies, doing "Coconauts" with Irving Berlin for example. I'm getting far off the subject of "American in Paris" here I guess, but I'm saying that in the area of comedy I think those shows could easily stand comparison against Hollywood comedy of the early 30s. Speaking of the Marx Brothers, "Animal Crackers" was written by Morrie Ryskind and George Kaufman, who shared the Pulitzer Prize with Ira Gershwin for "Of Thee I Sing" a few years later. When they made the movie version, it basically demonstrated how far ahead of Hollywood the best of broadway were at that time.

Anyway, on the subject of "American in Paris", I guess you're right that it's not supposed to be tragic, but I do personally take the characters seriously. I think it stands up to a lot of analysis, although the first couple times I saw it I didn't really see much of any significance going on. But when I learned more about "Pal Joey" and started to compare them, I started to get very interested in the story and the characters.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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[–] davisk957 16 years ago

"Breakfast at Tiffany's" touched on this same theme I think, I watched it again last week and it reminded me of "American in Paris.

funkyfry, this theme was again treated in Sunset Boulevard -- impoverished creative young single male, "sponsored" financially by older, rich woman, but in love with a younger girl.

Of course, there the result was not a colorful musical fantasy, but a black and white tragedy for all concerned.

Variations on a classic triangle.

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[–] thistledown-2 14 years ago

I certainly agree . I felt a creepy crawley feeling when he said she

lived with me as a child, and as she grew he fell in love with her..

Where did his fatherly feeling go to be replaiced by (what)?

I hate men like this....

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[–] brilliantholmes 14 years ago

Sure it bothered me, but I feel like that's the point. If I had felt comfortable with their relationship I might not have been rooting for Jerry-Lise as much. Lise cheats on her fiance, something that the audience shouldn't be happy with, especially because Henri is shown as such a nice guy. When his relationship with Lise is compromised by their strange history, however, her infidelity becomes ok, and Henri certainly doesn't become a villain either. I think it's a clever way of validating the Jerry-Lise romance.

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