Three dumb moves in the movie ... did you notice? - The Thing from Another World (1951) Discussion

[–] dudleydemon 15 years ago

1 - Bringing the block of ice inside and then breaking a window to allow the room to cool down seemed pretty dumb to me as well. But being an Australian who has moved to Canada, I have seen that sort of thinking in real life.

2 - I don't know why they needed a guard in the room. Probably a plot device to create a sense of danger.

3 - He was decked out in an electrically heated flying suit so he may not have noticed the heat of the blanket. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.

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[–] spirit_30 15 years ago

I would give them the benefit of doubt for bringing it in ... perhaps the natives would have tried to take it? But even so they could have set it in sight where a guard could have watched it from a window? ... and why break the window ... why not just leave the back door open?

Yes the guard in the room was totally unnecessary ... he could have stayed in the hallway and guard the door ... block the back door if they were afraid they could come in that way ...

Even if he didn't notice the heat ... he should have seen the cord ... not to mention the sound of the melting ice ... how could he miss all that water on the floor?

They could have done better getting the creature out of the ice ...

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[–] efs2 15 years ago

1 - Bringing the block of ice inside and then breaking a window to allow the room to cool down seemed pretty dumb to me as well. But being an Australian who has moved to Canada, I have seen that sort of thinking in real life.

lol

It's good to know the keen, searing logic of the U.S. military has spread to other lands.

Oh, how I wish I could believe or understand that.

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[–] dudleydemon 15 years ago

"It's good to know the keen, searing logic of the U.S. military has spread to other lands."

This had nothing to do with the US military. I'll explain - I sat some packaged meat outside to freeze. It was -40C outside and only maybe -5C in my freezer. The faster the freeze the better for the meat. My colleagues from work could not understand why I would do such a strange thing. When I pointed out the sensible reasons, they countered by saying it would attract flies or worse, bears. Reminding them that flies and bears are absent in such temperatures didn't seem to have an affect on their objections.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] DD-931 15 years ago

You all seem to miss a vital point about the creature being frozen in the ice: It would be reasonable to expect the creature to be DEAD. In reality, a living being frozen in ice like that would not survive the experience for more than a few minutes. That thing had been frozen like that for many hours before the men found it. Sure, we know the thing's alive because we're watching a movie about it. But real personnel in a situation like that wouldn't exactly see things the same way.

But yes, that means the guard was unnecessary.

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[–] efs2 15 years ago

You all seem to miss a vital point about the creature being frozen in the ice: It would be reasonable to expect the creature to be DEAD.

?

I don't think there is anything in the discussion that suggests otherwise. The goofy things that are noted are not goofy because they "free" the alien but because they are just goofy.

please insert signature here

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[–] DD-931 15 years ago

If it's agreed that the thing was expected to be dead, then what's so goofy about putting the block of ice in the storage room (as good a place as any at that point) or forgetting to turn off the electric blanket when it's put on the block to cover up the view of the frozen thing (which at that point is just one of those little slip-ups that people living in a bitterly cold environment might do)?

These three points are only really dumb if you know the thing is alive. Even the guard in the room is no big deal...

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

The part with the electric blanket doesn't add up ... wouldn't it have shorted out once it got wet? Are the electric blankets that can operate while wet? I know the one I have doesn't and there is a warning about shock ... so the blanket is definitely another plot flaw.

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[–] dont_b_so_BBC 14 years ago

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1 - Bringing the block of ice inside and then breaking a window to allow the room to cool down seemed pretty dumb to me as well. But being an Australian who has moved to Canada, I have seen that sort of thinking in real life.
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lol

It's good to know the keen, searing logic of the U.S. military has spread to other lands.

LOL, It's not just the US military, it's any military-- or any form of regimented bureaucracy.

There are in fact MORE than 3 dumb moves in the movies, and they are not all made by the military-- e.g. the lead scientist makes more than a few dumb decisions, all based on some code of conduct or standard operating procedure that he (or his organization) had preconceived for an idealized "first contact" situation.

It's a dig at how humans fall back to regiment in times of uncertainty-- e.g. the military guys decide to blow up the ice immediately without discussion, simply cos it's procedure; and the point is reinforced when the HQ orders them to blow up the ice immediately, even without further info on the situation.

In fact, it is clear from the movie the leader of the military guys forces himself to go ahead & make snap decisions even when he is unsure of the consequences-- simply as a matter of military procedure/training-- cos he is constantly awaiting further instructions/confirmation from HQ. So it's really his unconscious at work telling him to "bring it indoors", "set a close guard", etc. without really thinking-- cos he really doesn't know what to think in the first place... I mean, notice how they take pains (remembering to shave, etc.) to keep up "normal appearances" while they wait for HQ's instructions?

All intelligent "first contact" (that rules out "Independence Day") movies feature some criticism of the dumb moves caused by this human trait.

If you care enough to go around telling people you don't care... you obviously care.

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[–] jasonbourneagain 13 years ago

It's good to know the keen, searing logic of the U.S. military has spread to other lands.

LOL. I'm glad you brought that up. At first, Captain Hendry was so adamant about doing nothing until getting orders from the top. Once he gets his orders to preserve The Thing and its seedlings, then he goes and destroys everything of it that he can.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

I notice a couple of more dumb things in the movie ... first ... the electric blanket ... it wasn't wet at all when the sgt held it up ... now how did that happen?

In the last scene where the thing is walking on the rigged walk way and the nutty doctor comes running out and tries to communicate with it ... why didn't the thing take the doctor and use him for a blood source after he knock him down ... that's what it wanted wasn't it ... why did it continue towards the others?

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[–] powersroc 14 years ago

I would also add an odd incident of when the airmen are searching for the Thing.At the start,Crew Chief Bob(Dewey Martin) carries a Geiger counter in order to detect the creature.But when they do another search where they do discover the Thing,he,nor anyone else,is carrying the device at all.The end has Scotty deliver his news report over the radio to a room full of journalists.I realize that the Thing was destroyed by now but does it seem at all realistic that Captain Henry would have given Scotty permission to file his report?This whole incident was under the cover of national security from the get-go.I doubt that the military would have repealed that order even after everything was over,that's not how they operate.Also,Captain Henry would have awaited further orders regarding allowing Scotty to speak to the press,he would not have taken it upon himself to grant Scot permission.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

What you present is valid, but remember we are dealing with a hollywood production, and with a make believe military, that were suppose to be the "good guys" nothing like our real military ... so of course hollywood wouldn't show anything that would be a cover up ... that would have been a bad image for the military and back then people believe the real military were the good guys.

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[–] TorontoJediMaster 14 years ago

They used thermite because they even Carrington realized there was no chance of chopping the ship out with axes -not a ship that big and in those conditions.

I agree that leaving the block of ice outside would have been a smarter move, but they were probably thinking that they had to keep an eye on it, since it was a rather important find.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

"but they were probably thinking that they had to keep an eye on it, since it was a rather important find"

If you are thinking some one might steal it ... that would be unlikely given the size of the block. But even though there could be the risk of someone taking it they could have posted guards, if not in a tent (with heat)next to the block then having a guard keeping an eye on it by watching it from a window inside (with heat). I believe if they had done what I suggested there would be no movies or they would have had to use their heads (writers) to deal with that issue and have the creature get free by some other means.

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[–] powersroc 14 years ago

Remember too,that TTFAW was made during the Cold War Paranoia of the 50s.As dumb as the decision was to simply not leave the alien encased in a block of ice outdoors but under guard,fear can make people(& countries)take foolish actions that they believe are prudent.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

yes during the time it was made those dumb moves may have been quite logical to the view audience of the era.

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[–] popeye9000 14 years ago

The dumb thing that I noticed was a the end when the electrocution trap was set up.

The door the "Thing" entered was well trussed against entry by heavy wooden beams, but the thing simply opens the door outward (away from the blockade)!

Those beams would only be effective if the door swung inward.

Didn't the Dude in the Big Lebowski make the same mistake while trying to prevent unauthorized entry to his apartment?

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

LOL I notice that too ... that was pretty stupid. :D Another stupid thing was why didn't the reporter get a picture of the thing when it was encased in the ice? He kept blowing his chance for a picture several times ... especially at the end when the thing was coming down the walk way.

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[–] cwdotson 14 years ago

Part of the reason for the guard was to keep those naughty little scientists off the thing (pardon me, "Thing") until The Powers That Be gave the go-ahead. Another funny thing about military types, they like to presume that something bad will happen and someone will be accountable. Not to say they are always successful, and not to say that was evident in these characters, but if we are evaluating the movie in the context of what is reasonable, relevant nontheless.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

Okay lets say they needed the guards ... but they went over board ... all they had to do was leave the "Thing" in ice right outside the door and post a guard next to the window where the block of ice would be in plain view. It would be hard for those naughty little scientists to do anything in that temperature without being noticed. No worry about ice melting or keeping the guards warm or having to stare down the "Thing" while in the ice.

And while watching it the other night I wondered why there was radio interference after the craft was destroyed was the "Thing" itself causing it to happen?

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[–] cwdotson 14 years ago

I see your point about the window, but it is sometimes difficult to stand for four hours, and I think the window design required standing, gazing in the dark at a block of ice. Inside, although they had to worry about keeping warm, at least the guard could sit next to it and do something else to pass the time.

Again, I just think that there is a certain psychology that makes sense for those looking on on the reality of the film, where something "inside" is "ours," while "outside,"...not so much. This value on proximity applies in the military.

Interesting point on the radio interference. I'll watch that again this week-it's one of those movies I enjoy so much Ii watch once a month, anyway.

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[–] spirit_30 14 years ago

I'm sure they could handle standing for four hours, I had to do it when I was in the military ... but they wouldn't have and to. They could have set something up like crates that were in the warehouse and put a chair on it so they could see. Or they could be by the window sitting in a chair and can take a look outside every ten minutes or so. It would take a lot to move or mess with that size of ice so I'm sure a guard near the door and window would hear if anyone was outside trying to break the ice.
They would have been better off allowing the scientists to cut the "Thing" out then let the trouble begin ... it would have been much more believable.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Yeah ... the blanket was completely dry ... and the guard should have heard the water dripping. Too many dumb moves that caused the thing to get loose. As I stated before ... it would have been more believable if they just let the scientist cut the thing out ... and then let the trouble start.

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[–] amsdragons-2 13 years ago

the guard in the room was an attempt to keep a visual guard on the Thing. Just outside the door would not allow for the guard to ensure that the ice block is still intact.

Oh, there's just one more thing... - RIP, Peter.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

There was a window right next to the door ... all the guard had to do was keep a check on the window ... no way could the thing have gotten out if the block remained outside. The guard would have a good visual from the window by adjusting his seat. Block out side staying cold ... guard inside maintaining visual and keeping warm too.

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[–] justiceforall272 13 years ago

This is no biggie but I'll throw it in anyway. I noticed that not one of the military personel gave a salute to any of the officers. At least I don't think there was. When the Captain goes to see the "General" in his office, he just walks in and starts talking, then leaves the room the same way. It just doesn't work like that. I was in the Army and got chewed out several times for not saluting. It's something they should have remembered.

Just another small goof I thought I'd point out.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

I was in the Navy ... and I remembered once passing a marine officer ... it was always hard to spot them sometimes because their insignia were so small ... the man gave me such a glare that I would dare pass him by without saluting LOL

I will have to check that out the next time I watch the film.

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[–] WardenGordonBorden 13 years ago

Saluting in not usually done indoors unless for 'formal' reporting. It is also never done in the field. Even so, as a veteran flight crew they were pretty casual about rank anyway, exhibiting the male bonding and camaraderie (including Nikki) so common in Hawks films.

Hi, Bob.

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[–] bruce-129 13 years ago

After reading some posts here at IMDB I have to say the stupidity of the people in that movie is about on a par with the nonsense people post here, I would not put it past people to behave like that.

The electric blankey would go out and blow a fuse once it was saturated with water though.

I'd have to agree that the storytelling was not so realistic or thoughtful, but the remakes since have not made much sense either.

It would be fun to see a real thoughtful remake of this movie.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Aren't they doing a new remake of The Thing? I thought sure I saw some kind of promo recently. This time women are involved. I don't think I would like it, from what I saw. I have a feeling it would not be realistic or thoughtful.

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[–] bruce-129 13 years ago

kind of like the movie under discussion maybe ? ;-)

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

Or kind of like all movies? They're movies, after all, not real life. Though movies are sometimes preferable to real life.

Back to the thread topic: of the three dumb moves cited by the OP, only the first -- bringing the block of ice into the storeroom, then breaking the glass to keep it cold -- is really dumb. (Especially as Dr. Carrignton tells Hendry this is their storeroom and the temperature is kept constant -- meaning that by breaking the window and letting in freezing air they destroy a lot of their own supplies!) But posting a guard inside seems logical. As for the electric blanket, it's a bit of a stretch, but plausible...and anyway, you need some way to unfreeze the Thing! Otherwise, the ice doesn't melt, and you're left with something dangerously approaching...well, real life.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Good point about the supplies in the storeroom ... guard inside wasn't necessary ... lock and block the back door and put a guard on the door in the hall where it is warm. The blanket would have shorted out long before the ice would have melted, but there was a better way to get the Thing out of the ice ... they could have simply given the scientists permission to cut the Thing out of the ice then the fun begins. Much more credible that way. :P

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

Even with the window broken the ice was slowly melting -- remember that when Bob (Dewey Martin) asks Capt. Hendry to cut the four-hour watches in half so the men don't have to be in there that long, he says that the ice is beginning to melt and you can see the Thing more clearly now. Eventually the ice would probably have melted enough for the Thing to have forced its way out anyway.

It's the guard not hearing the water dripping all over the floor, and not looking back at the block of ice, over such a long period of time that stretches credulity for me. But I still think posting the guard in the room is logical: the whole point was to keep an eye on the Thing -- which, admittedly, the guard at the crucial moment conspicuously failed to do!

But I agree: having the scientists cut into the ice, then having one or more get the (final) surprise of their lives, and having the Thing escape that way, would have worked better. However, it would have been better still had they cut into the ice surreptitiously, against orders, especially since Dr. Carrington obviously had disdain for Hendry's authority in this matter. That would have kept tensions and resentments between the two groups high, and added an edge to the "blame game" they'd engage in over letting the Thing get out.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

So putting the Thing in the store room was a pretty lame idea you are right even with the window broken the ice still was melting.

I think the guard was listening to a radio ... if you look he has something over his ears. That is suppose to explain why he didn't hear the water dripping. I agree he should have been looking over his shoulder once in a while. Something that is suppose to be pretty spooky would cause you to look whether it's covered or not.

Also if you recall Henry telling his girlfriend in the dining area he posted a guard in case the scientists try to melt the ice and free the Thing. So was because of the scientists not the Thing.

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

Two things: First, the guard in the storeroom was not listening to the radio (what radio? In the Arctic?); he had earmuffs on against the cold, and was reading a book.

Second, Hendry never told his girlfriend (Nikki) that he posted a guard because he thought the scientists would try to thaw the Thing out. He never said anything about their trying to do that behind his back, nor did even Carrington suggest that they try to. Hendry never actually gave a reason for posting a guard. It's probable he did so as a routine military precaution (something that would be natural to him as a professional military man), to make sure that nothing happened without his knowing about it. Nothing was ever said or done to suggest that he ever thought the scientists would secretly try to melt the ice -- and in fact, they didn't.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

You were right ... he is not listening to a radio ... so there is no excuse for him not the hear the water dripping on the floor, so that is another dumb thing. I saw a little box clipped to his belt before he put on his gun belt, and the wire hanging from his neck I thought were ear plugs was some kind of electrical cord he later plugged in.

Second ... Henry did say to Nikki and I quote " I just can't agree with your pals. I had to set a guard". So I was correct about that he was concerned the scientists would try and melt the ice thereby making another mistake when they blew up the ship ... and they should have been allowed to melt it out ... it would have been much more credible, than an electric blanket that doesn't short out or get wet, and a guard that can't hear water dripping on the floor.

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

I agree that it would have been much more credible to have had the scientists thaw the Thing out, and much better for the plot's dramatic aspects too. But the line of dialogue you "quote" does not exist anywhere in the film, and in fact Hendry never said anything along those lines, to Nikki or anyone else. I'm not trying to be picky, but you are mistaken about this point.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Nope not wrong ... that was indeed a quote ... I put the DVD in and got that line directly from the movie. It's just after the sgt talks to him about shortening the hours for the watch ... then he goes and talks with Nikki ... I pause the dvd with the subtitle on and copied what I posted word for word what I saw on the screen.

So it must be the dvd that is mistaken lol :)

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

Okay, what Hendry said to Nikki was, "Oh, nothing. I can't agree with your pals so I posted a guard. They'd have that thing out waltzing with them -- it's not my job to decide."

However, you couldn't have gotten this from the close-captioning (unless they've redone it on different discs), since the CC mysteriously (and mistakenly) claims Hendry's saying, "I can't relieve your pals, so I posted a guard," which makes no sense; it makes it sound as if he's referring to the guards, not the scientists.

As you know, CCing is frequently inaccurate, or only a paraphase of the actual dialogue, not necessarily what was in fact said on film. This line of dialogue is spoken very low and there's a brief clinking sound in the background when Hendry says "agree", which is why I suspect the CC'er erroneously took it as "relieve", particularly as the previous conversation (with Bob) concerned how often they should relieve the guards.

Regardless, the point is that yes, you're correct, I'd forgotten this quick line: he does tell Nikki he can't agree with her "pals", the scientists. But though he says "they'd have that thing out waltzing with them", I don't take from this that Hendry necessarily thought they'd deliberately disobey his orders. There was no hint even from Carrington that he would do any such thing. (Later he does hide the discovery of the dead sled dog, and the fact that he's growing the baby things, but even these were not specifically disobeying any order from Hendry: he was concealing, not disobeying.)

It still seems to me that Hendry was simply taking a general precaution, not reacting to any specific threat that the scientists would thaw the thing out against his orders. No such threat was made or even hinted at, though posting a guard would thwart that problem as well. But unfortunately the dialogue isn't too specific on his reasons.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

I didn't see anything in the caption about "relieve" during that conversation with Nikki, are we watching the same dvd?

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

Well, there's only the one DVD, from Warner.

Since I don't normally use CC I have no idea whether the CC'ing may have been changed or corrected between editions at some point, or (is this even possible?) whether the CC'ing may come out differently on different TVs. But I re-ran it six or seven times and it came out the same ("relieve") every time, even though I'd already managed to dope out the actual dialogue (which is difficult to hear because of the background noise and Tobey's low delivery). I know that CC'ing is often incomplete, condensed or downright wrong, but it is strange that it'd come out differently in two different cases.

But in any case the only thing that counts is the actual spoken dialogue, where he does say "I can't agree with your pals," which supports your earlier statements. But it's still ambiguous whether this means Hendry actually thought Carrington would try to thaw the Thing, or that he was merely taking precautions against any problems.

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[–] efs2 13 years ago

On my DVD, what I hear is:

I just can't agree with your pals. I had to set a guard. They'd have that thing out waltzing with them. It's not my job to decide.

And that is what the captioning sets forth, except for replacing "out" with "up" in the third sentence and leaving out the fourth sentence - "It's not my job to decide" - entirely.

From that, it has always been my understanding that Capt. Hendry posted the guards because he was worried that the scientists might go against his "orders" and attempt to thaw out and examine the Thing if they got the chance. But if someone else interprets it differently, no problem. Perceptions differ.

He could have saved a lot of trouble if he'd just left it outside or on the plane, huh?

Somedays it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.

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[–] hobnob53 13 years ago

We all hear the same spoken dialogue. Why the DVD I looked at had different closed-captioning ("relieve" instead of "agree with") than what you and spirit 30 saw on yours, I can't figure out. But the only thing that matters is what Hendry actually says, on which we all agree (and about which we're all relieved).

You guys may well be right about Hendry posting a guard specifically because he was worried that the scientists would surreptitiously try to thaw the Thing out. I always thought he was casting his actions in a wider light, guarding against that possibility but also any other eventualities. In other words, I never got the impression Hendry thought they actually would disobey his orders, or that he had any concrete reason to assume they'd try to thaw him out, only that he was just making sure. As I said someplace above, the language is broad enough that his precise motives aren't exactly clear. But you may very well be right.

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[–] foolforfilm 13 years ago

A fourth dumb thing (or am I missing something)? Why did they bar the door from the inside that The Thing enters in the scene when he's fried? The door opened in the opposite direction.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Yeah I remember that ... I thought that was dumb too ... perhaps they were hoping the wood would fall on him? lol

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[–] HomerParrish 13 years ago

You left out the "thurmite bomb" that was supposed to melt the ice, yet instead blew up the entire space ship.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

Yes that could be thought as a dumb move, but some would say how could they get it out of the ice? I guess if they were smart ... and they were not ... they would have brought in heavy equipment and cut it out.

It does seem too risky to use explosives now that you mention it. Seems like they should have ask the question of an adverse effect from the bomb. Thanks for the comment. :)

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[–] HomerParrish 13 years ago

I think they said they had like an hour left to do it, so they tried?

Of course in reality, no one would even try to do it in an hour, even if they did only have that much time. They'd say, "we don't have enough time!" and leave it for another day. Of course, the movies aren't reality.

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[–] spirit_30 13 years ago

I agree ... the best thing would have been to lay out markers so they could find it after the storm, get heavy equipment in ... it would have been a much more interesting story if they have of left out the dumb moves and put something workable in.

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