I'd been looking forward to seeing this classic film as it's known to be heart-warming and funny. But it really turned me off to see the lovely Maureen O'Hara's character (literally) dragged and pushed around by John Wayne's Thornton character. I know one has to make allowances for "unevolved attitudes" in films made long ago, but the coarseness of her treatment was really objectionable. It spoiled the film for me.
An gabh thu tuilleadh?
My favorite part was the old lady handing John Wayne a stick saying heres a nice stick to beat her with.
LOL, or how about the secene when Mary Kate gave John Wayne a stick herself to beat her with, now thats a good woman, "Here darling, I've been bad, use this stick on me".
and it's a good thing sean thornton had a background in boxing or he may not have been able to slip that punch from mary kate. i am continually amused by the people who can not understand that the only spousal abuse in this movie was done by or orchestrated by mary kate danaher and to the benefit of both herself and to sean thornton. maybe when the remake is made the whiners can have sean can drive her back to her brother in a hybrid car.
shareIt kind of funny that the kicking the butt part was wayne and O'Hara idea..
Maureen O'Hara, Ireland Best Actress. Got Maureen O'Hara and Julie Andrews autograph 2008!
Men are the best advertisement for feminism.
An gabh thu tuilleadh?
Yes, the film was made in the early 1950s, but, I believe, it was set between 1920 and 1933. Remember Michaleen referring to prohibition in America? Attitudes back then in Ireland may have been dramatically different about the treatment of women.
Remember John Wayne chasing a scantly clad Maureen O'Hara through town in McClintock?
Thank God they can't make evil films like this any more.
shareAre you sane? because this is not even close to being evil,, maybe you need an open mind...If this movie is evil? then today movies are what? Heaven? no way
Maureen O'Hara, Ireland Best Actress. Got Maureen O'Hara and Julie Andrews autograph 2008!
I think he was being sarcastic.
My wife was like all women. Strange...and evil!
Also Michaeleen had obviously served in the Irish Civil War under a couple of IRA leaders.
shareI watched this film yesterday on Channel 4 and couldn't believe the scene where Mary Kate is dragged off the train by her hair. I also can't believe that Maureen O'Hara actually agreed to do this scene. I know the film was made in 1952 but really, would any woman allow herself to be treated like that? Like you, it spoiled the film for me, though Barry Fitzgerald's role was far too OTT.
shareThis whole movie is in an alternative version of reality - the men have a giant fistfight which leaves not a scratch on either of them. I'm no fan of wife beating (I believe John Ford was) but I get over it. I think it's weirder when Mary Kate offers John Wayne a stick because she knows she deserves a beating...Still can't help loving this movie.
shareActually, Mary Kate didn't hand Sean the stick, the older lady who was in the first scene at the train station, and then this one was the one that handed it to him.
The “stick woman” says: Sir!... Here's a good stick, to beat the lovely lady.”
In today’s society, it is, of course, over the top, but it’s strictly comic relief, as he never uses it on her!
Like you and most others, I LOVE this movie, too!
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
What's funny about spousal abuse?
shareI suggest you watch the movie, and then see that it was Mary Kate, NOT Sean who did all the "abusing," and also...try to refrain from enforcing today's so-called "standards" on the actions of a by-gone era.
Also...go buy a sense of humor, as this is ALL done "tongue-in-cheek." nothing more.
I don't act...I react. John Wayne
I must have missed the scene where Mary Kate drags Sean across town by his hair. Could you point it out to me?
My discomfort has nothing to do with enforcing standards, and everything to do with being unsettled by what I understand to be spousal abuse. I don't care what century you put it in.
Well...Sean didn't drag Mary Kate ANYWHERE by her hair, so once again, you've not seen the movie, or at least you didn't pay attention. SHE was the one who struck him, and was always emasculating him, and THAT WAS THE POINT OF HIS FINALLY HAVING ENOUGH...
No one, least of all the stars of the movie and it's director were in favor of Spousal/domestic abuse, but since the movie took place in a different time and in a culture where these things were "somewhat" tolerated in certain situations - notice that he never struck her, he lightly (and it is VERY light) smacks her rear with his shin - not his foot.
The problem with people like you is: you try desperately to cover your own failings and perceived shortcomings by being "outraged" at what ever you interpret to be an "injustice," and you want to FORCE that misguided and very often INCORRECT belief on the entire world.
To put things into perspective, you wrote: "It doesn't "glorify" anything. That's not the point. It makes light of things that shouldn't be taken lightly."
Like a lot of unintentional trolls, you're imposing YOUR sensibilities onto something that you shouldn't, because it simply doesn't apply to the situation.
In short, you are GROSSLY over-reacting.
I feel sorry for you, as you have such an aversion to anything that offends you, that you probably can't enjoy ANY movie you see, unless of course, if it was made in the last 15 years or so. Although, several of the movies I just described, when watched closely, have themes just as serious as the silliness you've gotten your panties in a twist over.
Do you listen to the soundtracks of some of these movies? The background music? In several cases, they feature rap, and one of the MAIN themes of rap is violence, particualrly against women...
Did you ever think of THAT? No, of course not, because you would have to quit watching movies , TV, or reading quite a lot of classic literature...
No...you're not truly offended, you've just been taught that if you yell about something loud enough, someone will give you the treat you feel you deserve for being a true "social crusader," and putting you overly sensitive CENSORSHIP driven nose into whatever suits your fancy.
The other thing is: you spend WAY to much time on IMDb message boards spouting opinions that only you and a handful of other social misfits can relate to, as it makes you feel somewhat intellectually and socially superior to espouse values that are offended by ONLY those things that are in step with your "so-called" political/cultural "values"
Do yourself (and everyone else) a HUGE favor, and do something else besides spout cliched opinions and tired sarcastic comments, ESPECIALLY about things of which you have no knowledge.
I don't act...I react. John Wayne
There's an earlier scene in which she hands him one which he throws away.
shareMarykate -
I'm sorry for that! I missed the part in the cottage, where they've both been out speaking to the Priest (her) and Vicar (him).
In ALL the years I've been watching this movie, I've never noticed that Mary Kate hands him that switch!!! Isn't that crazy?!?!
The thing for me in all of this, is how he is different from any man she's ever known, as the IRA member (her brother in real life) tells her when she asks what kind of a man she's married (as they're bringing "her things" the morning after the wedding).
I see something new everytime I watch this movie!
Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway. John Wayne
the men have a giant fistfight which leaves not a scratch on either of them
You also missed the bandage on Dahaher's face when he and the widow are in the courting cart!
shareShe wasn’t dragged off by her hair.
shareIt brought my enjoyment level down, too. Up to then, I was thinking 8/10 and a great ending could have taken it up to a 9/10. Between that and the glorification of a fight -- which I also can't get into -- my rating is down to 7/10.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ...well, I have others.
-Groucho Marx
the entire movie was leading up to the fight between thornton and danaher, you would have avoided that? tell us then how you would have made this movie better. start with mary kate leaving sean and go from there.
sharethe entire movie was leading up to the fight between thornton and danaher, you would have avoided that?I don't mind building up to a big fight at all. It's the notion that a fight is just a friendly get-together/competition that I've always had trouble dealing with.
gable was older than wayne. given the age of mary kate i don't think it would have worked as well. and if you can read my earlier posts and my referrals to youtube.com you will see that a good fight was not out of the ordinary for both town folk and gypsys. don't tell me you are offended by the idea that the irish enjoy a good fight? still you will have to give a better ending that the classic. no politiccal correctness please.
sharedon't tell me you are offended by the idea that the irish enjoy a good fight?Not offended, no. But I can see from what you said that we view some things differently. To me a "good fight" is a (??? - I can't think of the word I want. You know, when two terms are mutually exclusive?). I'm of course not including sporting events.
I think the term you're looking for is "oxymoronic," brucedgo.
Many of the posts, so far, don't reflect much of an understanding re: neither bygone generations views on husbands "disciplining" their wives, nor the Celtic culture of the Irish.
Seems kinda funny that modern viewers of TQM can't grasp the concept that Mary Kate WANTED to be "man-handled" and to induce her husband to have a knock-down, drag-out fight with her brother. Notice how proudly she walks, even all-bruised and dirtied up, after she accomplishes those things. To her, it was a richly satisfactory answer to the nagging doubts she'd had as to whether her husband really loved her and if he was man enough to demand her customary rights (the dowry) and protect her and her interests.
Secret Message, HERE!-->CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've discovered the Secret Message!
Thanks, vinidici. That's what I was thinking of.
Perceptive post, too. You're completely right, I think.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ...well, I have others.
-Groucho Marx
Excellently put! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for bothering with fools. I can't do it anymore.
How a person can see what they're seeing in this movie...it's sad.
-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch
I beg to differ in our perception of the fight between Danaher and Thornton. To me, and to countless others I'm sure, it was the climax of the movie that not so much gives one the perception that the fight was to be glorified, but a catharsis of purging feelings of animosity between the two men that had been festering from the beginning when Thornton first encountered Will
Danaher. Keeping in mind that Danaher was not an educated or cultured man, he would not have any other notion of how to resolve the conflict between him and Thornton except by thrashing out with his fists. In fact, the fight paradoxically paved the way for the two to became very close friends - as in the pub scene where Thornton tells Danaher that he's become very fond of him, and Danaher replies likewise, as well as afterwards when the two stagger intoxicatedly through the fields and ponds with their arms around each other singing, as they make their way to Thornton's house.
Sean does manhandle Mary Kate but he never really hits her besides the kick in the behind. On the other hand Mary Kate slaps him twice I believe and threatens to hit him with the leather horse crop in the buggy scene.
share[deleted]
Definitely, the movie was very close to the story it was based on. When I was young it was nothing to have a fight now and then. Many times the best of friendships began with a bout of fisticuffs. Fighting was different back then. Also O'Hara did the whole scene herself and JW played it to the hilt. I love this movie.
shareI totally agree with you, if you pay close attention, Maureen pointed it out in Commentary that she was in extreme pain because she hurt her back very badly during that scene and had to wear a back brace for months.. I think that real devotion.
Maureen O'Hara, Ireland Best Actress. Got Maureen O'Hara and Julie Andrews autograph 2008!
Maureen said she broke her hand for real when she slapped John Wayne after the kiss at the cottage
shareMary Kate also threatens her brother with "a fine wake" when he raises his hand to her, and his little sidekick is down on his knees scrubbing the floor when Danaher spits on the floor. Seems to me all the people in this movie, male AND female, were quick with their hands, but only the men get demonized for it. I hate the double standard that it's bad for a man to hit a woman, but it's fine for a woman to hit a man. If hitting is bad, it's bad and the gender of the hitter or the hittee shouldn't matter.
http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/
zanza,
I wouldn't think to argue it is a good thing for a woman to hit a man, but in fairness on the point, in the ussual case, since men tend to be stronger than women, the damage caused tends to be greater when a man hits a woman. That practical consideration is not to be completely ignored, I think.
Well, not all men are muscled-up cavemen and not all women are frail little flowers either. Women have fought for and won EQUAL rights(in the US at least; I don't know how this exactly works in other countries). If a woman thinks it's alright to talk trash to someone(whether they be male or female) and/or take some swings at them, they should expect said person to protect themselves/retaliate to some degree or other if said woman goes too far. A man does these type of things to another man and you can bet the other man will most likely take offense and start a fight. All I'm saying is that a woman should expect a similar response if they pull the same stuff with a man; in fact, they should be MORE wary if they pull that on a man for the very reason you described(then again, a weaker, smaller male should be just as wary when in the same situation with a larger, stronger male). Otherwise, it's not really equality but a matter of certain women having a double standard about when they should be treated "equal".
Now, that's not to say that I approve of a man hitting a woman for no good reason. For example, if the man is a drunken loser who only gets punchy when he gets drunk and wants to take out his inadequacies on his significant other. Or he just has a really bad temper and takes it out on "weaker" people around him. Of course, for the sake of equality, a woman shouldn't be doing these kind of things either. I mean, it's not like there haven't been drunken or bad-tempered woman who've done these same kinds of things to people in their life...men included.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the mindset I described above is not that dissimilar from the traditional Irish one. I mean Irish women DO have a reputation for being just as temperamental, feisty and willing to fight as their male counterparts. It's part of their charm. After generation upon generation of these kind of women, I think the Irish just gave up and started treating their women as 'equal' long ago just to avoid the drama. lol
It'll be like Luke Duke and the other guy.
Really?
Yeah.
NO!
I despair when i read threads like this and see how modern politically correct thinking has closed down so many people's minds.
This movie is about very strong people. They like to fight. In the modern world we admire physically weaker people who detest fighting. But there are other admirable ways to live. No way is perfect - the world of this movie was less safe, but more passionate. Our modern world is safer, but at a huge cost.
One point of the movie is that Mary Kate Danaher is strong, tough, and likes a fight. Was she really going to love a guy she could control? I don't think so. She knows Sean Thornton's character, and if she steps out of line, she would be disappointed if he didn't let her know.
Maureen gets pretty abusive herself. jeez talk about being hypercritical.
shareBoth MCLINTOCK! and DONOVAN' REEF try to ape the QUIET MAN, only Wayne in both cases acts like a Neanderthal and spanks the women involved in scenes that REALLY wouldn't fly today. But those are supposed to be comedies.
shareSome of you need to grow a damn pair.
"Say, do you hear that? It's the sound of the Reaper..."
Those scenes of the woman offering the stick does look odd nowadays.
It's that man again!!