The dog was called *beep* Deal with it.
It's a historical movie. The death of his dog just before the raid really upset him. The dog is important to the story. It had a name.
Its not just someone making it up to be controversial.
If they make a story of Arnold Schwarzenegger life will they rename him as his name is german for Black *beep*
I think it tells a lot about the ideological overlay of Western societies that the name of Guy Gibson's dog has become THE focal point of this film for a certain kind of person.
There might be more compelling issues raised like the civilian deaths which resulted from this raid or the scale of the sacrifice in the destruction of 8 out of the 19 aircraft crews.
But no it's not offending those who see in a name something more offensive than real death and destruction, although whilst on the subject of such names, why is it so "offensive" when the same people can take great delight in using *beep* and "redneck" to describe those they don't like (see no need for **** here!) but would physically attack those who would use the other?
And I can't be the only one to have noticed that African-origined people themselves describe a certain type of their own kind as such without any comeback ( other than that of Bill Cosby that is).
And speaking of things unmentionable and as one whose father was WWII RAF ground crew I am amazed that despite their civilians being deliberately massacred and maimed by Allied Bombing crews the German authorities (and most of the population) treated shot down crews as soldiers to be shown the status of POWs. Though our people were only obeying orders they could well have been treated differently but weren't.
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Even if it's true that Gibson was 'a pain in the arse' and his dog was 'heartily disliked' that doesn't mean it 'ain't' a historical movie. The bomb was developed, the raids took place, the dog was named what he was named, regardless of whether Gibson was an angel or a jerk, or whether anybody liked the dog or not.
shareGuy Gibson was hated? Is this some sort of vendetta against WWII RAF heroes? I've heard the same about Douglas Bader.
And if they were........so what? They all had a *beep* hard job to do with little chance of making it back alive.
I know I'd be a bleep bleeping bleeper if it had been me in their shoes!!
Air Force pilots, from the beginning of aerial warfare, seem to have a universal reputation for "extreme self confidence" (aka arrogance). This appears to be the case for all nations.
I have read many pilot bio's from WW2. Larry Forester's book about Bob Tuck relays Tuck's impression of Douglas Bader as being loud and opinionated. In another bio (and I can't remember whose), the pilot/author met Guy Gibson in a pub and described him as modest and quiet.
Perhaps aircrew are a bit like human beings, having a variety of personality types.
Dudley I will second the impression of Bader...of course, a man who overcame the loss of both his legs through sheer determination & willpower probably didn't suffer fools gladly.
NM
Perhaps aircrew are a bit like human beings, having a variety of personality types.The main problem was that most officers in the British armed service during WW2 were educated at private schools. The whole ethos of British private education at that time (and still today to some degree) was to teach those from the privileged classes that they were superior to everyone else. Their contempt for 'normal' British people was only surpassed by their contempt for those of foreign nationality.
Let's be fair-how much use would someone not arrogant and selfconfident be in combat,especially of the kind Gibson and Bader were in?
shareYou don't have to be arrogant to fly a plane well and an arrogant attitude fails to get the best out of those around you, therefore not a very good trait for a person in command.
share"The whole ethos of British private education at that time (and still today to some degree) was to teach those from the privileged classes that they were superior to everyone else."
But the number of British officers that have been privately schooled is still disproportionately high.
I didn't know that. In fact it's quite untrue. It's true that there are some people that come out of such institutions feeling nothing but superiority over and contempt for the lower orders
Prime Minister Cameron is the perfect example of this type of person.
I expect that's true. It's also true of careers in the learned professions and the entrance stats to universities. And there's a good reason for it, which is that for Britons (and also in the USA these days) it is (sadly) only in private education that you get properly educated, outside the grip of the teacher unions and the right-on education bosses in the local government/authority. And that fact alone gives people the head start they need.
Gibson, by all accounts, treated his men just as a prefect would treat the younger boys at an English boarding school
How could people dislike a labrador? I love them
shareI'm sure the dog was great - I love labradors. Gibson was doing a rather stressful job.
shareIn response to RogerTaylor1947, I was given to understand that at some point in the war, Hitler gave the order that captured British bomber crews were to be executed for murder. Further, during the Blitz, London was bombed every night for over two months by a Luftwaffe that didn't give two twopenny damns for British civilian casualties. Yet Churchill did not issue any instructions to harm their downed aircrews. Later,the German high-command introduced the V1 and V2 rocket bombs especially as anti-civilian `terror' weapons. Both were completely indiscriminate in their deployment.
In the light of Germanic behaviour towards civilians from both 1914/18, and 1933 onwards, the whole rotten nation deserved to be blown off the map.
All praise to Bomber Harris.
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Why would I moan about the dog? That dog was the star of the show.
shareWhat a great story about a true and historic event that helped stop an army of Nazis to stop killing people
(white black etc) and you worry about a dogs name!!!!
There is so much of the story that the original Dam busters failed to deal with and took liberties with the actual facts. So changing the name of the dog is hardly going to be a big deal. Hopefully they will actually make reference that the bombing raid managed to kill rather a lot of Allied POWs and that bombing dams is now a breach of the Geneva convention.
Its that man again!!
LOL. Before I even checked this board I KNEW that a bunch of sniveling politically correct babies would have their panties in a twist over the dogs name. Man, I hate what a hyper sensitive society we've become.
What are words for when no one listens anymore
I'm with you hippie,
I'm Australian and didn't even know *beep* *beep* - in case this gets censored) was banned word as a swear word until a few years, in fact I think I learnt it was 'naughty' word simply from this site.
I've seen a British show on cable called 'Love Thy Neighbor' where a white Pom loves next door to black pom, and they are always were putting each other down in a friendly jesting way, and using words like White-Honky, Nig-Nog, darky, black-fella... the list goes on. (the TV show was made in the early '70's I think)
In Australia people often call each other so called offensive names, but it's always in jest.
People need to come to this country to understand we are friendly and hard to offend with words.
How does the saying go? ...Sticks and stones...but words...
-B!LL!
In 1963 I played the part of Smithson, an African-American, in an English play about nuclear war, "The Offshore Island". The makeup I used was called [That word] Black. For all I know it still is. It has never had the connotations outside the USA that it does inside.
I gather it would be impossible to use the name within the USA. Would their be rioting? One solution would be to make two versions. The historical name of the dog, after all, has absolutely nothing to do with modern US race relations, and (I've just seen the uncensored film) [That word] is a very faithful dog, and his name was the code-word for a successful raid. The connotations are entirely positive.
All that is visible must grow beyond itself...
http://www.cafepress.co.uk/ahua/8761658
I am delighted to see that UK Channel 5 is showing The Dam Busters this afternoon with no editing of *beep* name.
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