Comment on "The Dam Busters"

I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU---A LOT OF THOSE TERRORISTS UNDERSTAND ENGLISH, AND THEY KNOW HOW TO ACCESS THE INTERNET! IF YOU DOUBT IT WHY DON'T YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE BEHEADING VIDEOS THEY PLACED ON THE INTERNET???

I've no doubt that they do understand English, I am aware that some communicated with Ken Bigley in English before his execution. I am also aware that they do have access to the internet. However, I doubt that they would read specifically hunt down anti-war sentiment on a movie forum.

I BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY TOO! I ALSO RECOGNIZE THE RESPONSIBILITY THE GOES ALLONG WITH FREEDOM!!! FREEDOM OF SPEECH DOES NOT INCLUDE THE FREEDOM TO SHOUT "FIRE!" IN A CROWDED THEATRE! ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Yes, actions do have consequences. Which is why Iraq has now become a hotbed for al Quida terrorists. Which would not have happened if we had not invaded.

AND WOULD YOU EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THIS IS AN "ILLEGAL WAR"?

We had no right to invade Iraq, there had been no findings of illegal weapons. The war had not been sanctioned by the UN. We illegally occupied Iraq, which (and this is the funny part) is what we're criticising Syria for doing to Lebanon at the moment.

THE EVIDENCE HAS BECOME WIDELY KNOWN THAT TOP U.N. OFFICIALS WERE PAID OFF BY HUSSIEN AND HENCE HAD A VESTED INTEREST IN MAINTAINING THE STATUS QUO IN IRAQ!

News to me. Pray tell, where did you hear this from? Fox news?

IN OTHER WORDS, HUSSIEN WOULD STILL BE IN POWER IF HAD BEEN LEFT UP TO THE U.N.

Possibly. And whilst I am no apologist for Hussien, I thought he was an evil brutal dictator, we cannot and should not go around bombing innocent civilians because of this. Otherwise, every nation in the world would constantly be bombing each other, because they disagree with their leaders.

HUSSIEN HAD HIS CHANCE, AND THE BLEW IT.

Was this the chance were he was offered the chance to give up his weapons of non-existance? And he failed to do this? How dare he.

"FIGHTING A BATTLE THAT CANNOT BE WON"? THAT IS JUST EXACTLY WHAT THOSE SCUM WANT YOU TO BELIEVE!

No, this is what is actually happening. You kill one terrorist. Yippee, another ten take his place. There is not a finite number of terrorists in the world, and the more the west is seen to be waging a war against the middle east, the more insurgents will continue.
I draw you to an example of WWII. The Nazis had conquered and occupied France. However, the French resistance had sprung up and were attacking the Nazis. In response, the Nazis threatened to kill a whole village unless the resistance gave themselves up. They didn't, and the village was wiped out. What effect do you think this had?
a) Inspired the resistance to give up or
b) Inspired more people to join the resistance?

YOUR COMPARISON IS FLAWED---EVEN THE BRITISH IN INDIA WERE NOTHING LIKE THE SCUM THAT MURDERED NICK BERG ON THE INTERNET. GHANDI WAS UNDENIABLY A GREAT MAN, BUT HIS METHODS WOULD BE INEFFECTIVE IF NOT SUICIDAL AGAINST THE SCUM WE ARE FIGHTING IN IRAQ. IT MAY BE WORTH REMEMBERING THAT GHANDI WAS MURDERED BY ONE OF HIS OWN PEOPLE AND HE WAS NOT KILLED BY THE BRITS.

Actually, I was suggesting that the insurgents should look into methods of civil disobediance. And following Ghandi's death, he has been elevated into hero status and is forever linked with the idea of peace. Wheras no-one remembers Jinnah.

REMEMBER NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN? REMEMBER HOW HE TRIED TO AVOID WAR BY CAVING IN TO HITLER AT MUNICH? REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED?

As a history student, yes I do. Hitler gained Czechslovakia & Austria. However, Chamberlain should have adopted a tougher strategy with Hitler years before at the occupation of the Rhineland - economic sanctions, reinvasion of the Rhineland, etc etc. However, there cannot be drawn a parallel between Hitler & Saddam. Hitler was an evil dictator who had designs on taking over the entire world. Saddam was an evil dictator who knew that if he threw so much as a rock towards Israel or any other country, the rest of the world would take the excuse to bomb him back to the stone age.

CHURCHILL APTLY POINTED THAT 'CHAMBERLAIN HAD A CHOICE BETWEEN WAR OR DISHONOR... CHAMBERLAIN CHOSE DISHONOR---AND HE GOT WAR"

And Churchill also aptly pointed out that "Jaw Jaw is always better than War War". Something that Bush, who disgustingly compared himself to Churchill, would do well to remember.

IT WAS LONG BEFORE MY TIME, BUT I AM CERTAIN THAT IT WAS PEOPLE WITH YOUR KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT REFUSED TO ACT AGAINST HITLER UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE.

Umm.. no. People with my attitude first acted against Hitler in 1936 during the Spanish civil war. A large number of those on the left went to Spain to fight alongside the socialist government against the combined powers of Franco, Mussolini & Hitler, whilst Britain & France sat back and did nothing.

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I HAVE SEEN FOR MYSELF THE RESULT OF YOUR KIND OF THINKING. I WAS TEENAGER DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, AND I WAS ON ACTIVE DUTY WHEN SAIGON FELL IN 1975.

I REMEMBER ALL THE WAR PROTESTERS SAYING:

"GET OUT OF VIETNAM!"
"GET OUT OF VIETNAM!"
"GET OUT OF VIETNAM!"

NORTH VIETNAM WAS FULLY AWARE OF ALL THE ANTI-WAR SENTIMENT IN THE U.S., AND IT IS NOW KNOWN THAT IT DEFINITELY ENCOURAGED THEM TO KEEP FIGHTING. AND THAT WAS LONG BEFORE THE INTERNET EXISTED.

Ah Vietnam. Another war that America should not have been involved in, and once again, could not win. My smypathies for being involved in such a pointless struggle.

I CAN IMAGINE THE DEMORALIZING EFFECT THE ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS SIMULTANEOUSLY HAD ON THE U.S. FORCES AND ON THE P.O.W.S IN NORTH VIETNAM.

At looking out for their well-being? At wanting to get their loved ones home safe?

IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THAT THE SO-CALLED "PARIS PEACE TALKS" WENT NOWHERE FOR 4 SOLID YEARS. THAT WAS ALMOST EQUAL TO THE LENGTH OF TIME THE U.S. WAS INVOLVED IN WWII. I SAW IT HAPPEN.

Two fundamentalist ideological opposites, both convinced that they could still win the battle. This had nothing to do with outside interferance, this had everything to do with neither side wanting to lose.

IN 1972 THE U.S. WALKED OUT OF THE PEACE TALKS IN DISGUST, MINED HAIPHONG HARBOR AND UNLEASHED THE U.S AIR FORCE.

On Cambodia, if my history is correct.

TO THAT, I CAN ONLY SAY THAT EVERY PERSON SERVING IN IRAQ OWES YOU A BONE-JARRING PUNCH IN THE NOSE...AND I HOPE YOU COLLECT FROM EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.

Ah, the joys of fascism. If you cannot argue your point, resort to violence. I have friends who have been to Iraq. I have spoken to people on the street who have been to Iraq. 90% of them have agreed with me, they want to come home. When I am out on the streets selling papers, I have been supported by people who feel heartened that I care enough to do something about this illegal war.

IF JUST CAN'T STAND GEORGE BUSH, FAIR ENOUGH. I ASK YOU TO REMEMBER THAT GEORGE BUSH IS NOT BEING BLOWN UP OR SHOT AT IN IRAQ.

No, sadly he is not. However, he ordered people to be sent to Iraq to be blown up and shot at.

DO YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE GUYS THAT ARE?

I don't believe that I am making it difficult for the guys that are. If your government is doing something illegal, or something dangerous, or something downright stupid, I believe that it is your civil responsibility to make your voice heard. I believe that it is your responsibility to protest. I believe that it is your responsibility to attempt to get through to the decision makers. That way, whether you are successful or not, you can hold your head up high and say "I tried. I tried to make a difference".

One last point. I was watching JFK earlier today and I was struck by an opening caption which I believe is appropriate here.
"To sin by silence when we should protest makes cowards out of men" - Ella Wheeler Wilcox

Bring Them Out Of Iraq

"At least the Germans fought like MEN...they did not hide behind civilians and religious shrines!"

I'm sure the British said the same about the Americans in the war of independence: why, the audacity of shooting soldiers from the trees, rather than walking in a straight line across open ground where they could be shot!

"that is just exactly what the scum we are fighting WANTS us to do"

Actually, while the locals may want you out of their country, bin Laden wants you to stay in Iraq, because not only has Iraq distracted US troops from hunting for him, but every day you stay there and kill more Iraquis, you recruit more terrorists to his cause... he must be laughing his ass off right now.

"if we try to run away from them, we are just going to get SHOT IN THE BACK!"

Indeed. But if you don't want your soldiers getting shot, the answer is easy: don't go invading other people's countries.

"I remember what happened after we pulled out of Vietnam"

Interestingly, not the things that had been used as a justification for the war there: the 'domino theory' was bunk, just like the reasons Bush used to justify invading a foreign nation which presented no threat to America.

"Unlike WWII, the war in Iraq is a battle of nerves; it is a question of which side is going to cave in first."

There's no question: Americans will run home with their tails between their legs, because Iraq has no vital interest for the American public, whereas getting Americans out of their country is a vital interest for Iraquis. That's why smart people don't invade other countries without a damn good reason.

"However, there is ONE condition under which I would back pulling all our troops out of Iraq--- we pull our men out and then we NUKE the place!"

Hopefully you'll take two seconds to re-read that sentence and think about just why so many people in the world now despise America. Bush's success in destroying the world's respect and goodwill for America in a few short years is nothing short of amazing.

BTW, here's a good article on America's future in Iraq. Van Creveld is not only one of the world's leading military historians, but he also lives in Israel, which _does_ have vital interests in the situation in Iraq: so when he calls Bush's invasion "the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost them", he probably knows what he's talking about:

http://www.forward.com/articles/6936

Sorry to dissapoint guys but...

there are only 2 airworthy lancs and they are in canada and the uk,

the "third" lanc is the bomber JUST JANE which is at an actual airfiled from world war 2 in east kirby (licolnshire)

she isnt airworthy and most proberbly not, never will be

she isnt covered in normal paint she is actually covered in normal house paint, and a few of her parts are past it! though....

you can still actually go in this lanc and taxi down the runway in her! absolutly brilliant, hearing 4 merlins going with you sat in the rear turret as she starts up and goes, you feel quite scared its strange.