does anyone think that after the movie ended and Jim and Julie end up together that Leech and Pat would to?
not necessarily something she wants but after her father dies she sorta fell into it.
"The only Abnormality is the incapacity to love"
I always felt that was a natural assumption the way things ended up at the end. But Leech seemed to have more character than that spoiled brat Pat so I wonder how long they would have lasted anyway!
shareI remember that they did end up together in the book--which I read YEARS ago and can't check--but their characterizations in the book weren't as fine tuned as they are in the movie. I do feel that Pat has an underlying attraction to Leech she can't acknowledge--that Leech gets the underlying message and responds, but the scene ends with him apparently even more disgusted with her than she is disgusted with him. So I rather doubt they would unite in the aftermath of the movie.
sharemaybe Leech will end up working for McKay. I'd like to think that could happen. Pat however, might change without her father around.
shareit really was one of those films which left a lot of questions at the end...naturally Pat was always as stubborn as her dad so how would she react on learning he was dead, would she carry on the feud? yes I assumed she would end up with Leech BUT she would own the ranch so he would still be "taking orders" to some extent and not owning the place. She would always have this underlieing anger at her friend going off with the man who was to be her husband and this could start a whole new feud.
fascinating possibilities...one of the few films that could have had a decent sequel but didnt.
I just love Steve Leech in this movie...what a man. He deserved the ranch and presume he would marry Pat and take over as owner although he deserves a better woman than her.
Bill the Vampire can bite me anytime, anywhere
I cant't imagine them ending up together. He was attracted to her for a long time and so was she to him and if the film had ended before the fight between Leech and McKay they might have become a couple. But I think the moment Leech realises who McKay actually is and - even more important - who the Major is, he understands that Pat, who has refused the one and always worshipped the other, is no more than a spoilt child. When he finally comes to see the father clearly he will probably lose the infatuation with his daughter as well.
Sometimes I've wondered whether Leech is really in love with Pat or whether his attraction to her comes from a subconscious longing to really be a part of the family. The Major is a father surrogate to him and the farm where he has been working for so long is his home. By marrying Pat he would win the farm and finally become a family member. Perhaps that is what he has seen in Pat (apart from her being the only girl in town).
When the battle in the canyon is over, Leech looks like a man whose world has gone to pieces and who has to do a lot of thinking which may not allow him to return to his former life. I'd rather think that he might start a new life elsewhere or even work for McKay. But if he should marry Pat he'd merely do it for the farm and out of a sense of duty to the Major which I would not call a happy ending.
Was wondering who the "mayor" was but I know you mean the "major".
Bill the Vampire can bite me anytime, anywhere
Well, knowing the Major and his arrogant ego, he probably wouldn't shoot ya dead for addressing him as "Your Honor," would he?
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Leech beat up and bullied people for a living, so why does he deserve better than Pat? It’s funny how some think ALL men deserve a good woman regardless of what type of man they are. Pat is not a horrible person. She is spoiled due to her father’s indulgences. And it’s not like she can’t change and become a better person since her father can no longer negatively influence her.
I'm actually more concerned about Julie's future with McKay.
You have McKay, who dumps Pat because she falls off his pedestal and fails to be this perfect ideal he envisioned while back home, getting together with Julie who is taking her friend’s sloppy seconds. I wonder how long that relationship will last? It'll probably last until Julie disappoints him like Pat did.
I actually prefer Heston's character, but his character is still a bully; unless you believe his transformation at the end should wipe out everything before that.
“Little by little the look of the country changes because of the men we admire.”
Pat didn't really love McKay though; she initially loved the image of him but when he didn't live up to "her" standards she turned on him quickly enough. Whether or not Pat learns anything from her father's death is unknown.
shareYou have McKay, who dumps Pat because she falls off his pedestal and fails to be this perfect ideal he envisioned while back home, getting together with Julie who is taking her friend’s sloppy seconds. I wonder how long that relationship will last? It'll probably last until Julie disappoints him like Pat did.
A lot of people get easily bored with plodding, slow-moving and character-driven narratives in movies; others get distracted for one reason or another or have to get up and leave off from watching the movie to go to, say, the bathroom or the fridge while the movie is playing. For whatever possible reason, you seem to have been absent during such scenes as when Pat (1) grabbed the rifle, intending to fire at the rowdy but mostly harmless Hannessey boys and (2) showed no inclination to give her fiance any benefit of the doubt when unflattering falsehoods were being hurled his way.
She managed to hide these and other less charming personal traits from Jim when they were courting, but they all came out with a vengeance in rapid fire!
I have responded to some of your other posts elsewhere and I've tried to make it clear that I don't hold any scathing views toward Pat, but she's definitely immature; has relationship-threatening character defects; and really isn't ready to marry any man, let alone Jim McClain, until she grows up, ceases the stringent overkill in measuring every man by her father (himself merciless, capricious and tyranical) and sheds the negative traits she shares with the Major.
In short, Pat and Jim really are unsuited for one another! Jim is partly to blame for the negative circumstances that unfolded shortly after his arrival to the Terrill house because he really should have gotten to know Pat better than he did before plunging into a wedding engagement with her when they were back east together, otherwise it all could have been avoided and both he AND Pat would have been much happier had they not rushed into the engagement; it's to his credit that Jim admitted as much, when Pat paid him the visit at the hotel.
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This has long been one of my favorite films, and on certain days I find that I want to watch this film above all others. The story, the physical scope, the outstanding music, and the complicated relationships between the people . . . all of this, plus of course much more (i.e., William Wyler's magnificent direction) make this a film that I can appreciate over and over.
Now, as to Steve and Pat . . . OF COURSE THEY WILL PAIR OFF!
The one major impediment (no pun intended, ha ha) to Pat having a decent relationship with a man is her father. Yes, she's spoiled and headstrong. But, as Julie tells Jim, she does have the makings for a wonderful wife . . . though not, as we know, for Jim! Their romance back on the east coast is something that can happen to any of us . . . we fall in love, thinking it's the real thing, when in fact our physical attraction and the acceleration of that attraction gets in the way of making sound decisions. Jim DOES make the sound decision of agreeing to marry Pat in Texas, for as a former ship’s captain, he is steady on and won't make rash decisions. But perhaps at the back of his mind is the idea that before marrying Pat he wants to see her in her own habitat. Being a man of integrity, he does not do this as an "out" . . . but he DOES want to proceed in a way that will begin their marital life on a careful rather than rushed note.
As we soon realize, however, Pat is really not a match for Jim. Right or wrong, she has different ideas about what defines courage and how one should react to what happens in life. And not only is Pat her father's daughter . . . Steve is the major's surrogate son. What makes this all the more interesting is that Pat and Steve are obviously attracted to each other, tho' Pat fights it for a number of reasons, perhaps most obviously because SHE wants to be dominant.
But with her father out of the picture, who will she turn to?
For as much as Pat wants to be in charge, she is not the type to evolve into what was then termed "an old maid." So it makes sense that Steve, who has modeled himself after the Major, is the only man for her . . . courtly but rough-hewn, just as her father was. And because, as the film progresses, Steve develops insight into why the war between the two clans is idiocy—and because Jim has developed an obvious love for the land and Julie, who also is wedded to the land—it is understood, in my opinion, that Steve and Pat will marry, and Jim and Julie will marry, and that given that the flashpoints, Rufus and the Major, are now gone, the unions of these two couples will bring stability to what was formerly a country filled with contentiousness and violence.
It should be mentioned that Pat does seem to drop out of the story. While her presence is not necessary toward the end of the film, her disappearance also may due to the fact that she was pregnant at the time and was beginning to ever-so-slightly show that pregnancy in certain scenes.
whitcombjl, that's a good sound evaluation of the Pat and Steve relationship/sub-story in the film.
shareI saw the film on tv this we and about this IMO Steve is bound to the ranch, wiothout the MAjor Pat has no way to manage it alone, she cannot do it and she will try all her best seductions abilities to take him there...and I believe he will accept in the end....the ranch was his home, in any case, for a lot of years
sharethat jim and julie end up together is a given. the real question is the peeps around them.
pat inherits the ranch, so it seems natural for her to marry steve, but will steve, after jim opened his eyes about the major and her, would he still want to marry her?
next question is the Hennessys. will the surviving sons mourn their loss in peace, or will they continue the feud, with or without jim on their target list?
all questions we'll never find the answers to
I did not save the boy, God did. I only CARRIED him.share
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Tea-Rex, I think the war is over, with Rufus and the Major gone. Hostility on the part of the heirs of the formerly feuding ranches would bode ill for them, with Julie and McKay in control of the Big Muddy. Leach is a changed man and bears no ill will to the Hanneseys; the Terrill hands respect him far too deeply to ever break the peace if he won't. The Hannesey boys aren't bad sorts and their black sheep brother, Buck, is dead and won't be making trouble anymore. All that now remains is for the land's inhabitants to expand and develop the town with churches, schools, railroads and local commerce. In short, civilization has finally arrived in the Big Country.
Okay folks, show's over, nothing to see here!