ending - Plein soleil (1960) Discussion

[–] ryanoconnor-1 13 years ago

I think the foreshadowing of his death/execution is definitely there in several scenes, including where a ship with a black (eg. death) sail glides across the water.

The story actually takes place in the 1950's, and was made in 1960.

But yes, France didn't abolish the death penalty until 1980.

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[–] waldenpond88 12 years ago

ryanoconnor is right, the book was written in 1954 and published in 1955. According to her biographer Andrew Wilson, Patricia Highsmith watched a young man on a beach in Positano, Italy, in 1952. This was early in the morning at 6 a.m..
And that was the inspiration for Tom Ripley.

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[–] Aulic Exclusiva 13 years ago

Since the moralistic ending violates the novel, I usually ignore it and wish could be edited out of the film.

Snobbery is a form of romanticism, the chastity of the perfectionist

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[–] BelleCBelle 10 years ago

I agree. I was VERY disappointed with the ending. I dislike films that give in to the social mores of their time. Patricia Highsmith must have been dissatisfied with the ending. Ripely is one of my favorite contemporary-literature characters, and he was ill-used in this film.

Human Rights: Know Them, Demand Them, Defend Them

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[–] patrick-180-667941 11 years ago

Ripley dies in the end because there is death penalty in France in 70s.

The story taking place in Italy, I don't understand why Ripley would have been condemned in France.

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[–] sambuca 10 years ago

Furthermore, the victim was an American citizen, so the matter would have to e resolved in the US, right? Depending on what state Philippe was from, Tom could have escaped capital punishment.

-Goodnight, mother of six!
-Goodnight, father of two!
[hairrise]

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[–] Cult_of_Kibner 9 years ago

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it depends on where the crime took place. Under normal circumstances at least.

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[–] essex9999 9 years ago

I'm pretty sure it depends on where the crime took place. Under normal circumstances at least.

Of course it does. Just ask Amanda Knox. Crimes are prosecuted in the country where they happen, under the laws of that country.

The crime took place in Italy, so trial and punishment would take place in Italy. Since Ripley is American, there might be some involvement by the American Consulate initially. France doesn't come into it at all.

In any case, Italy has not had capital punishment since 1947, so no execution for Tom.

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[–] mdonln 9 years ago

You're right, location is the determining factor but in this case shouldn't the question also be which crime? He was guilty of many in, I believe, multiple locations. Murder would be the most serious and the one for which he would be arrested.

Greenleaf's murder was on the open water, I believe. Wouldn't his lawyers try to get jurisdiction in the place where the punishment would be most lenient and/or he'd have the best chance of being acquitted? That case probably would be mostly circumstantial.

Once Greenleaf is discovered, it will be easy to figure out Ripley was impersonating him. Therefore, Freddy's murder, committed in Italy, would be attributed to him too. That case would be a lot easier to prove conclusively. There's tangible proof, there are eyewitnesses who saw them together, and there were plenty of people who knew him as Greenleaf. That case was already an open investigation. It's likely that case would be tried first; in Italy.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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[–] tody711 8 years ago

In one of the Criterion extras it was mentioned that way back in 1960 murderers in movies were fully expected to be caught and prosecuted. They absolutely could not get away with their crime. So the mores of the times dictated his capture and presumably punishment. - The books, not so much as Tim lived on to kill 7 more people.....My how times have changed. A lot of people/movie goes worship killers....

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[–] mdonln 8 years ago

tody711 says > In one of the Criterion extras it was mentioned that way back in 1960 murderers in movies were fully expected to be caught and prosecuted. They absolutely could not get away with their crime.

I think you're right and I agree with the crime doesn't pay stance a lot of movies take but it doesn't happen in all cases. I have seen quite a few movies made while the code was in effect in which the criminal did not get caught. Usually they paid in some other way, like with their lives, but in a few rare cases we're left to imagine the outcome. Unfortunately I can't remember any of the titles at the moment but I remember them because I'm always surprised at how those movies ended.

My how times have changed. A lot of people/movie goes worship killers....

I'm not sure in which direction you think things have changed. Do you mean today people worship killers more than in the past or is it vice versa? In that respect I think things have remained fairly consistent over time. There's always going to be a segment of the population that roots for the criminal. There was a lot of it going on during the Prohibition years and with famous outlaws like Bonnie and Clyde but it also happens a great deal today too. The people running off to join terror groups or who demonstrate against the police obviously identify more with what I would consider the bad guys.

the mores of the times dictated his capture and presumably punishment.

That's one of the problems I think we have today as a country. We no longer have shared values because so many people believe in anything goes. I see that as a lack of values because values are based on beliefs about what's right and what's wrong. Everything cannot possibly be right in all conditions. Society starts to break down and internal conflicts arise.

Tom was way ahead of his time. He lived according to his own code and simply did whatever he wanted. People who were considered his friends were just stepping stones. More and more people seem to embrace those attitudes today but, again, I'm sure there have always been segments of the population that thought that way.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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