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OT: David Fincher to Direct New Strangers on a Train for Netflix(FOR REAL THIS TIME?)

posted a month ago by roger1 (2493)
15 replies | jump to latest

I'll put this on the Strangers on a Train board too, but it seems that the Psycho board gets more looks.

I found an internet article of THIS WEEK(the first week of April 2024) which says that David Fincher is going to DIRECT(not just produce) a remake of Hitchocck's Strangers on a Train, to be called only "Strangers."

Funny thing that I know: A remake of "Strangers on a Train" has been in development hell for so long that I swear at one time it was going to be called '"Train." I think "Strangers" is the better way to go, but actually I think "Strangers on a Train" would have been better, still.

Back in the 90s, we got some real, actual Hitchcock remakes: Psycho. A Perfect Murder(from Dial M for Murder, with Michael Douglas and Gwyneth Paltrow.) Rear Window(on TV with Christopher Reeve.)

But since then, we've had a few PROPOSED remakes still lost IN development hell. Michael Bay's The Birds(with Naomi Watts and George Clooney.) A "To Catch a Thief" remake set in Miami, with Gal Gadot.

And Strangers on a Train.

The Strangers on a Train remake idea goes back to at least 2003, when Denzel Washington and his director pal Antoine Fuqua were set to make it. But Denzel went for a (bad) Manchurian Candidate remake instead.

My question at the time was: is Denzel gonna play the bad guy?(he could -- see: Training Day) or the good guy? We never found out.

Ben Affleck is attached to this Fincher "Strangers." So, same question: is Ben gonna play the good guy or the bad guy?

Evidently, we shall soon...really, for real this time, no lie, not kidding...find out.

One comment:

If they do remake Strangers on a Train, it better STILL END with the berserk carousel sequence.

For all the brilliance of the plot, and Robert Walker's compelling performance as psycho Bruno Anthony -- Strangers on a Train is really ABOUT that carousel climax. Just like North by Northwest or 8 years later is really ABOUT its Mount Rushmore climax.

You see, Strangers on a Train and North by Northwest each served the same role in Hitchcock.

Strangers on a Train followed four rather sedate Hitchcock films with little action and poor box office: The Paradine Case, Rope, Under Capricorn and Stage Fright. Hitch decided to "play the part of an action entertainer" and built Strangers on a Train for maximum 1951 impact: hero and villain duking it out to the death on a carousel spinning out of control and off its axis. BIG THRILLS. And his biggest hit in years -- Number Three at the box office for 1951.

North by Northwest followed two rather sedate, rather depressing Hitchcock films with little action and poor box office: The Wrong Man and Vertigo. Hitch decided (again) to "play the role of an action entertainer" and built North by Northwest for maximum 1959 impact: an opening drunken car drive; a midpoint crop duster vs man chase and then Mount Rushmore for the finale. BIG THRILLS -- especially with the Bernard Herrmann score thundering along. And his biggest hit in a few years -- Number 6 or so for 1959.

I don't think they will ever remake North by Northwest for a lot of reasons but two are (1) that Cary Grant was the perfect star for that perfect movie and (2) it would have to have a Mount Rushmore climax and you can't film there anymore.

I think they CAN remake Strangers on a Train but...it better have the carousel climax.

[–] swanstep (2631) a month ago

It's funny, when I think about a Strangers on a Train remake I think of the story's Highsmith roots and that in turn makes me think of her Ripley tales and their recent semi-successful reinvention as Saltburn. I'd say that that case encourages the thought that Highsmith's stuff *can* be successfully updated. The whole project, however, strikes me as a bit beneath Fincher and you'd think he could find himself a better project than that.

Relatedly, the Robert Downey Jr Vertigo remake seems to have been greenlit by Paramount;
https://deadline.com/2023/03/vertigo-remake-robert-downey-jr-steven-knight-alfred-hitchcock-james-stewart-paramount-pictures-davis-entertainment-team-downey-1235308636/

It's an RDJ passion-project and he and his wife will be producing so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Paramount regards this as a strategic move to lock in RDJ long-term for other, mostly more commercial projects. I'm sure that Paramount is well aware that remaking or even sequelizing venerable masterpieces (they made The Two Jakes) is normally a fool's errand and a pretty thankless task.

[–] roger1 (2493) a month ago

It's funny, when I think about a Strangers on a Train remake I think of the story's Highsmith roots and that in turn makes me think of her Ripley tales and their recent semi-successful reinvention as Saltburn.

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I"ve read of Saltburn...but not enough. Is it actually BASED on a Highsmith book or story? Or "in the tradition of."

Certainly Highsmith's Ripley tales have stretched out over the decades now (Wasn't Dennis Hopper in one in the 70s? And of course Matt Damon led a very highbrow version.) But Strangers on a Train has remained rather inviolate, except, as I recall, for a really cheapjack version where Bruno became Carol Lynley and the tennis pro was a golf pro and it was just this side of a TV movie.

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I'd say that that case encourages the thought that Highsmith's stuff *can* be successfully updated.

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One question to ponder: will they try to "go back to the book" This has no carousel climax and earlier on(I"ve read) Guy REALLY DOES kill Bruno's father, compromising the whole thing. (Purists DON'T LIKE that Guy won't kill the father in Hitchcock's film but...c'mon...he's a GOOD GUY.) So if Fincher elects to have Guy kill the father, we will have a "faithful" treatment in which "the bad guys win." Depressing.

One way that moviemakers try to get out of criticism for remaking movies is to say "well, we are really filming the book as originally written." The Coens said this about their True Grit and indeed, the remake folllowed the book to a VERY anticlimactic ending...whereas the Wayne original ADDED two great back-to-back scenes at the end.

If they filmed "Jaws as the book was written" -- the shark wouldn't eat Quint and get blown up(far-fetched year, but its the Star Wars Death Star two years early.) Rather the shark tires out from harpoons and drowns, dragging Quint down with him -- Quint is caught in the harpoon ropes. Bleah.

CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) a month ago

The whole project, however, strikes me as a bit beneath Fincher and you'd think he could find himself a better project than that.

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Well, its for Netflix, so we can figure -- as with his Mindhunters series and his Netflix movie "The Killer"(much disparaged b you and I recently swanstep, and I'm the one who goes EASY on movies) -- Fincher is being paid a pretty penny to make t his. ("Zillions" -- Netflix spending is out of control.)

And as for "a bit beneath Fincher," well -- what HAS he done lately? The Killer? I'm sure that Imdb would show me that Fincher has diversified into producing(Mindhunters) and made some movies I forgot about, but its like Se7en is a long time ago, and the frustrating Zodiac not much more recent. Has Mr. Fincher fallen victim to QT's "later films aren't so good" director trap? I honestly don't know, I just don't feel like Fincher's been given the press he used to.

Back to the carousel climax in Strangers on a Train and the Mount Rushmore climax in North by Northwest: the carousel isn't in the Strangers on a Train novel and North by Northwest is an original screenplay and in BOTH movies these are CINEMATIC climaxes that would never be effective on the page in a novel. They are part of what David Thomson calls (in the singular) ..."Movie."

Now the novel Psycho DID have the shower slashing and stabbing of Marion(Mary) and the novel Psycho DID have the detective getting killed in the house(at the FOOT of the stairs.) Hitchocck took these existing liteary set-pieces and CONVERTED them to "movie."

CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) a month ago

The rape-strangling in Frenzy is in the book. I bought the book while the movie was in production and I recall thinking of that scene in the book -- "HItchcock is going to film THIS, and THIS is going to be the big scare scene?" It was at once not as spectacular-sounding as the Psycho shower scene, and just too realistic.

But there were differences. In the book, the killer never uses a necktie. That was a "HItchocck style motif conceit" -- and a GREAT one for the movie. The killer uses his bare hands or a stocking. In the book, it is unclear if the killer is a rapist too. I think it is suggested by jumping over the rape entirely. And though a few lines survived from the book for the killer Rusk and the victim Brenda to say...Rusk's lines in the book were MUCH more crude and sick and crazy. (For example, he keeps telling Brenda, "I'd like to give you a slice of my wedding cake." Huh? Hitchocck "cleaned him up" for the movie.

So...sometimes Hitchcock made up his climax or set-pieces "from whole cloth"(Strangers on a Train, North by Northwest) sometimes he used the books as his guide(Psycho, Frenzy.) Just depended on him, I guess. I think he clearly dreamed up the carousel and Mount Rushmore climaxes to get movie hits after some slumping.

CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) a month ago

Relatedly, the Robert Downey Jr Vertigo remake seems to have been greenlit by Paramount;

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Hmm...so Vertigo and Strangers on a Train are REAL "go" projects. My rule: they are in two phases (1) when cast and (2) when shooting. Not quite yet...

Maybe this will push Michael Bay to rejuvenate his "Birds" remake.

https://deadline.com/2023/03/vertigo-remake-robert-downey-jr-steven-knight-alfred-hitchcock-james-stewart-paramount-pictures-davis-entertainment-team-downey-1235308636/

It's an RDJ passion-project and he and his wife will be producing so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Paramount regards this as a strategic move to lock in RDJ long-term for other, mostly more commercial projects.

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Yes. One reason this "Vertigo" is very real is that RDJ is nothing but power these days. I think he personally got a $100 million payday from the final Avengers film. And now he has a long-in-the-making Oscar to boot. Give him his Vertigo reboot! (Just like Van SAnt got HIS Psycho reboot in exchange for Oscar heat from Good Will Hunting.)

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I'm sure that Paramount is well aware that remaking or even sequelizing venerable masterpieces (they made The Two Jakes) is normally a fool's errand and a pretty thankless task.

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Well, Paramount also remade True Grit and...that's a rare winner and I STILL say the John Wayne version has two great final scenes(not in the book) that make that the more emotionally involving movie (both Paul Newman and Alfred Hitchocck said "the ending makes the movie" -- that's what the audience remembers.

But True Grit wasn't a full classic like Chinatown or Vertigo. And hell, RDJ HAS to know that Vertigo held that "Greatest Movie Ever Made" Sight and Sound slot. (To which he could reply "And who reads that? And have you HEARD what Sight and Sound picked THIS time?)

CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) a month ago

I remained convinced of this:

RDJ seems to have a TECHNICAL desire to use modern camerawork to make the Vertigo scenes in Vertigo REALLY vertiginous. Like that Spiderman sequence atop the Washington monument that made me as scared as I REALLY am from heights, and like that " Walk" movie (tightrope betwen the twin towers) that swanstep mentioned, if THIS Vertigo REALLY gives viewers Vertigo...the whole famous tragic love story and deep themes and beautiful photography and great music won't matter.)

I'm reminded that while Vertigo lacks the "entertaining thriller" repuation of Strangers on A Train, NXNW and Psycho, it DOES have some great set-pieces, and HITCHCOCK's version of the "vertigo" sensation was incredibly creative for its time -- he invented(I guess) the "zoom in, dolly out" effect that Spielberg most famously used on Roy Scheider seeing the boy get ate at the beach in Jaws.

Vertigo also cleverly opens with a bang-up action/cliffhanger/death sequence which launches Vertigo with FAR more action that NXNW and Psycho open. Hitchcock's plan seems clear: "Grab the audience early with this chase cliffhanger suspense scene, and they will sit still for over an hour of just driving around and watching a woman."

I'm guessing that even if RDJ cannot overcome the history of Vertigo as a story, if he wins on making us all dizzy in the movie theaters, his Vertigo will win over doubters.

[–] Information-Police (4184) 22 days ago

Well, there was "Throw Mama From the Train." But there was no carousel

[–] roger1 (2493) 22 days ago

Yes, Throw Mama From the Train was VERY connected to Strangers on a Train , wasn't it? They even showed a clip FROM Strangers on a Train in it.

But...no carousel...no Strangers on a Train.

If the remake doesn't have the carousel...it is missing the point of the movie.

Hitchcock said of these three movies that:

...he only made North by Northwest to put the Mount Rushmore climax on film.
...he only made Psycho to put the shower murder on film.
...he only made Frenzy to put its disturbing broad daylight office murder on film.

I wonder if he only made Strangers on a Train to put the carousel climax on film? Doubtful..its not in the book. The Psycho and Frenzy murders were in the books. North by Northwest was an original screenplay into which Hitchcock put a "decades long desire" to put Mount Rushmore on film.

[–] Information-Police (4184) 22 days ago

I didn't know he said those things. They are pretty iconic.
It is interesting that B by NW may be more remembered for the biplane scene than the Mt Rushmore fight.

[–] roger1 (2493) 21 days ago

I didn't know he said those things. They are pretty iconic.

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Yes, he used the same phrase each time "..the entire reason I made the movie was ....(to get the one scene on film and before audiences.)

Recall that Saboteur(1942) ended with a climax on the Statue of Liberty. Hitchcock later said that he then mused about a movie climax on Mount Rushmore "for years." It wasn't a scene one would find in a novel. Rather, an ORIGINAL screenplay had to devised to TAKE the characters to Rushmore. "North by Northwest" was a merger of a particular idea that Hitchcock had bought for $1000 from a newspaper man("A decoy spy who doesn't exist."), the Rushmore climax, certain ideas "lifted" from The 39 Steps and Saboteur...and, ultimately, the crop duster attack scene(which Hitchcock first spitballed with his screenwriter Ernest Lehman as ..a TORNADO somehow generated by the baddies to chase Cary Grant!)

When you think about it, Lehman ended up with quite the task for Hitchcock, and it paid off. Most of Hitchcock's movies were made from novels (Strangers on a Train, Vertigo, Psycho) and the screenwriters at least had "plot blueprints" to follow.

Ernest Lehman had been hired to write a novel as a movie for Hitchcock -- The Wreck of the Mary Deare - but Hitchcock and Lehman decided it didn't work and decided instead to collaborate on "the Hitchcock picture to end all Hitchcock pictures" so they just sort of made up North by Northwest in the writing room as they went along. A helluva well structured script emerged. And The Wreck of the Mary Deare got made anyway...with Gary Cooper and Charlton Heston.

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CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) 21 days ago

It is interesting that B by NW may be more remembered for the biplane scene than the Mt Rushmore fight.

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Yes, that's true. My theory is that the Mount Rushmore scene is perhaps too much a "traditional chase cliffhanger" to critic types whereas the biplane/crop duster scene is more of a "creative art film type scene." Critical articles on NXNW always seem to focus FIRST on the biplane scene as the classic scene in the movie.

What was great about North by Northwest at the time was that it had BOTH scenes -- the cropduster(mid-film) and Mount Rushmore(climax) It was rare for a movie at that time to have TWO big action scenes of such power and frankly, NXNW actually had THREE (the opening drunken car drive was considered quite exciting, too.)

Note in passing: Ernest Lehman worked on one more Hitchcock movie 17 years after North by Northwest: Family Plot(from a novel.) But Hitch and Lehman ADDED a runaway car scene to that movie in which, said Lehman "we fixed some problems with the North by Northwest drunken car scene." They made the Family Plot car scene MORE exciting by removing the "framing POV device" of the car hood in the forward view. JUST show the road rushing to meet us and its more dizzying(the car in Family Plot is on a mountain road with its brakes cut and accelerater jammed by the baddies.) They also removed all music from the Family Plot car scene so we felt ONLY the screeching of tires. Much more "visceral."

Back to Rushmore and the crop duster.

Personally for me, I find this analogy about two back-to-back Hitchocck movies:

North by Northwest:

The critics talked first about the crop duster scene. The Rushmore climax is lesser regarded.

I like the Rushmore scene BETTER. More exciting to me.

Psycho:

The critics talked first about the first murder: the shower murder. The second murder of the detective on the staircase is lesser regarded

I like the staircase murder BETTER. More classic in its camera angles and atmosphere.

[–] Information-Police (4184) 21 days ago

[–] roger1 (2493) 21 days ago

The thing I like about the crop duster scene, and why I think it is better remembered, is that it something terrifying that comes out of nowhere and which the audience can identify with. Everyone had been in a situation where they are in a desolate spot that seems all too quiet. To think that a plane might appear in the sky and attack you is the stuff of nightmares!

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All true. It IS a great scene, and I think one reason that North by Northwest is a VERY great movie(entertainment-wise) is that the movie has TWO great scenes -- of that action nature. And one more pretty good action scene(the drunken drive) and lots of other good scenes too(the UN Murder, the auction, etc.)

What is ALSO great about the crop duster scene -- and I'm not sure people remember this - is how LONG it is before the crop duster actually attacks. Hitchcock is playing with time and space and suspense...and comedy...by buliding up the tension and NOTHING HAPPENS. Cars drive by. A truck drives by(blowing dust all over the dapper Grant.) And finally...a car drops a man off. Great shot compositions: Grant facing the man. Grant walking to the man. Small talk:

Grant: Hi...hot day.
Man: Seen worse.
Grant: Is your name George Kaplan?
Man: Can't say it is, cause it aint.

More silence and small talk. The bus arrives to pick up the man. And then the great line:

Man: That's funny.
Grant: What?
Man: That crop duster's dustin' crops where there ain't no crops.

Brilliant. The bus takes the man away ...and the action slowly, amusingly , begins. The plane draws closer. Grant looks. Closer. Grant. Closer...

CONT

[–] roger1 (2493) 21 days ago

I've always thought the Rushmore scene was made less impressive by the previous fight on the Statue of Liberty. Like, "haven't we done this before". Especially since I did see Sabbateur before seeing NxNW.

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That's a good point. I forget when Mount Rushmore was completed -- only a few decades before North by Northwest, I think -- but its like Hitchcock took 17 years to finally use that OTHER famous United States monument for a climax.

But they are DIFFERENT climaxes. There is no room to move on the torch of the Statue of Liberty for hero and villain. They are in close quarters, no room for a chase. Just a simple cliffhanger.

And there is NO MUSIC to the Lady Liberty scene. It is a dead silent suspense piece based on the villain "hanging from a thread."

Rushmore by contrast, allows for a big chase as four characters move about on the monument(the heroine Eva Marie Saint JOINS Grant in this life-or-death chase) and the music is exciting, thunderous, BIG. I love the great shot of henchman Martin Landau(and his stunt double) hanging alongside Lincoln's cheek and falling about forty feet to a rock ledge below. Just exciting to look at.

Also: I think that the Rushmore chase is the greatest "get them!" chase in movies. James Mason says "get that figure back" and this means the henchmen CANNOT just shoot Grant and Saint off the mountain. They have to be chased, grabbed, and killed.

Anyway, I certainly love the crop duster scene too -- ALMOST as much as the Rushmore scene.

PS. Mad Magazine, in the 60s, did a short "skit on paper" in which Alfred Hitchcock is shown showing slides of his daughter and son-in-laws recent vacation at monuments: in the slides, the couple is shown DANGLING FROM: Rushmore, The statue of liberty, the Eiffel Tower, the Sphinx. Hitch had his reputation!

[–] Information-Police (4184) 21 days ago

Lol, Mad, was very formative to sense of humor