MovieChat Forums > L'année dernière à Marienbad (1962) Discussion > Medved Brothers Fifty Worst Films of All...

Medved Brothers Fifty Worst Films of All Time


Why did the Medved Brothers include Last Year at Marienbad in their Fifty Worst Films of All Time.

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^Because they're idiots! That's why!

Broadway doesn't go for boooooze and dope!

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But what reasons did they give for putting it in their fifty worst films.

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I don't know what their reasons were, but I'm guessing that it was because the film is pretentious and totally pointless. Not to mention baroque and dismal.

Balok

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By pointless I'm guessing you mean that you didn't find its point(s).

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It was reasonable, among other possibilities, for the "50 Worst Movies" book to conclude that this was a bad film. In fact I think Chicago's Music Box, in its current release (May '08) committed a sin of omission by not mentioning all the negative reviews cited in the Medved book. Actors' standing perfectly still while others step out to speak is a non-cinematic affectation, not really adding to motion picture art or craft, and pretty much exhausted by Eugene O'Neill in the Twenties. Aristocratic setting makes the work effete and personal. Fact that it reflects Hiroshima Mon Amour or other works in Resnais "oeuvre" not relevant to whether this film is good. I'm still open to discussion about the good qualities attributed to this movie, but also afraid it will take a lot of convincing.

By the way, the "50 Worst" book is not exactly by the Medved brothers: it was co-authored by Harry Medved and Randy Dreyfus. It does list Michael Medved as a contributor somewhere in its Acknowledgments.

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I doubt that anyone could convince you to like it. Art either connects with us or it doesn’t, and both responses are always equally valid, no matter what any expert might say.

But I wonder about your complaint that the film’s stylized staging of Robbe-Grillet's dialogue fails to add to either "motion picture art or craft". This might be a convincing argument if the entire film were presented in a similarly antiquated and stagy manner – but it isn’t. Overall, Last Year at Marienbad is a forward-thinking and cinematic piece of work. Most of its strategies are formally experimental and couldn’t be easily achieved in any other medium. For instance, and while they may articulate quasi-literary thematic points, the endless, vertiginous shots of architectural detailing are an exercise in pure cinema. The same is true of the film’s use of repetition (visual, auditory, narrative) to induce a trace-like state in the viewer. Finally, over and over, Resnais uses the camera to establish, subvert and question point-of-view. All of these methods advance the art and craft of popular cinema.

Also, I’m not sure what you mean when you complain that the aristocratic setting makes the film "effete and personal". This is certainly true to some extent, but I’m not sure why we should see this characteristic as a fault. Last Year at Marienbad concerns desire, time and memory, and by concentrating on almost absurdly refined and circumspect characters who have no apparent worldly obligations, the film is able to eliminate everything that isn’t essential to its core themes.

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I love this movie very much... but I can understand why he chose it. At it's best, only a fraction of it's audience will connect with it. Moviegoing has been culturally defined as entertainment. This movie is a big "screw you" to that idea.

The most exciting thing you can do with this movie is think about it. I'm up for that. Most people aren't. Most people who hate the movie, prefer to stop thinking about after twenty minutes. Most audiences prefer overt meaning and emphatic plot points.

(Also Medved is a douche )

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That those two guys included it in their book is a tribute to it in my book.

EDIT: In reality, only one of those two guys...evidently Michael was only a contributor, not a co-author with his brother.

"Doesn't that make you misty? Chalk up another victory for the Human spirit!"

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There are entertainment movies (in which the craft of film making is used primarily to make money--sort of like pulp or genre fiction) and there are art films (think poetry, James Joyce, Melville). Most Americans prefer, grew up on, entertainment. Last Year at Marienbad is a work of art. It exceeds craft and provokes a deep meditation on love and the nature of time.

Michael Medved views and understands movies from a biased Christian, quasi-neoconservative perspective. He should give up his film hobby and just preach the Gospel.

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Michael Medved views and understands movies from a biased Christian, quasi-neoconservative perspective. He should give up his film hobby and just preach the Gospel.
by - dennyvision on Tue May 27 2008 10:35:37
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I like your comments about LYAM, and as noted, Medved is a douche, but the man is an orthodox Jew, not a Christian... though he is kosher with Christianity, as can be heard on his nit-picking, valueless radio program.

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I don't think religion comes into play here. I think he just doesn't have an open mind about cinema. He'd probably hate Persona, too.

cinemapedant.blogspot.com

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I already posted thay info.

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Most people who hate this movie, prefer to stop thinking after twenty minutes.

^Exactly, onepotato! But you're giving most people 19 minutes too much credit!

Superstar in your own private movie - I wanted just a minor part...

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Well if any knows anything about Michael Medved, they should know he is a complete moron of a critic. He is extremely conservative and closed minded. He also seems to have a very loose knowledge and appreciation of film. In that book he also said Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, so he really has no clue what he is talking about.

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Thats interesting about "Bring Me". I loved "Bring Me". I normally don't like films with alot of violence but that is a fantastic film. I came here after trying to watch "Marienbad" last night. I made it about 15 minutes in and gave up. I see its artistic value, its influence, but I don't get it. Really and truly, films on the level of say "Cabin Boy" should make the Worst 50 list. Not a film like this. But Ive always thought Medved was an idiot. So this confirms it yet again.

ETA: Just for laughs I checked the list on Wikipedia. I see theyve got "Zabriskie Point" on there too. A hugely flawed film but I think its still fascinating, and a must-see for people interested in cinema.


I think we're just gonna have to be secretly in love with each other and leave it at that.

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"I came here after trying to watch "Marienbad" last night. I made it about 15 minutes in and gave up. I see its artistic value, its influence, but I don't get it."

I think that this is me as well. I made it about 30 minutes in, and while I didn't hate it, I just think that I have a limit of experimental/avantegarde what-have-you that I can enjoy. Somebody mentioned Inland Empire in another thread relating to this film. I think that Inland Empire is my limit (and what a disturbing limit it is!!!).

However I will say that I never want to see Zabriskie Point. I actually feel kind of sorry for the hipsters that liked Zabriskie Point and maybe thought that they were going to get some sort of counterculture fest with L'Avventura.

I will also admit to having a fondness for Cabin Boy.

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Because they're Christian Extremists and don't understand film? Really, I didn't even realize they were still alive. If they ever had any relevancy as critics, that time has come and gone years ago.

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The Medveds, with their "50 Worst Films" and "Golden Turkey Awards", embody the worst aspects of film criticism. It's very much a high school/college mindset, showing off how "cool" you are by trashing everything and placing yourself above it all.

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I don't like to defend Micheal Medved, because I think he's a bad and closed minded critic, but he was NOT the author of the 50 Worst Films of All Time book. Harry Medved, his brother, was one of the co-authors of the book.

That said, while I also don't agree with Harry Medved's assessment about Marienbad, it's inclusion in the 50 Worst book probably made more people aware of the movies existence than any other amount of publicity surrounding it.

I can personally attest that it's mention in the 50 worst book was what prompted to eventually view the film for myself and become one of those who have a great deal of appreciation for Resnais' work.

So cut Harry and Randy a bit of slack, everybodies entitled to their opinion, even if you don't agree with it.

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I agree. I love Marienbad, but there's no denying it's a difficult movie that is going to draw a lot of resentment.

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I actually bought the "Golden Turkey Awards" book long ago, and while it was very entertaining, my questions about some of the choices helped lead me to my present healthy skepticism about film critics and their ability to tell good movies from bad movies. Both Medveds deserve about as much respect with their opinions as the average high school sophomore. In other words, not much.

Having said that, I'd like to say to those who quit this movie after 15 or even 30 minutes have wasted more time than they realise. The first 15-20 minutes of this movie are the worst part of it, even as they help (to some extent) set up the rest of the movie. Yes, the frozen figures and the overlong shots are a major flaw in the film, but if you stay with the movie you'll find the rest of it becomes more and more captivating and fascinating. Those of you who quit the movie let the worst part of the movie keep you from seeing the best parts of the movie. Now, that's always assuming you like movies that make you think.

So the flaws of the first part of this movie keep me from calling it a great film. But it is a good one, it shows ambition and intelligence far beyond most "popular" movies, and calling it one of the "Fifty Worst Films of All Time" shows no understanding of the meaning of Film, Worst...or Time. Or maybe even Fifty.


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The fact this movie is on there gives their book no credibility.

I can understand liking the book, but calling it one of the worst movies ever makes it seem like it has little artistic merit and isn't well-made. This movie is clearly well-made and intelligent. I don't think an argument can be made that it's a poorly made film.

I personally don't like a couple of Godard's films, but I recognize that they are well-made and intelligent films. They are just not to my taste. But that doesn't mean they are bad movies.

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Some nice photography however.


But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.

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Because the kid who wrote it wasn't even old enough to drive at the time. Not saying teens can't enjoy this film, but in this case, he obviously wasn't mature enough to even begin to form an appropriate opinion about it.


Jack White killed a man with his bare hands.... While singing and playing guitar.

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I'm sorry that this reply is 4 years too late ... but here goes .... though I rarely agree with the puffed-up Medveds, I have to agree that this is the most pointless, pretentious, stultifying, un-involving, risible, loquacious, protracted several hours of banal waffle and drivel it has ever been my ill-fortune to endure.

But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.

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The title is a misnomer; it's not really "The Fifty Worst Films of All Time," but instead what the authors considered the worst films in fifty different genres and sub-genres. (Otherwise, the book would've been a simple run-down of no-budget sci-fi trash from the past three decades.)

Out of 288 pages in my edition of "Fifty," four pages are devoted to "Last Year" (including a mix of rave reviews and pans from the time of the movie's release), and the Medveds actually let it off easy in comparison to the drubbings they gave other pictures.

You have to understand they were aiming at an audience slightly above Homer Simpson ("Less artsy, more fartsy!") level, movie buffs who were just as interested in cinematic faceplants as the grand triumphs everyone else was writing about. And the Medveds were hardly the first or last people to have a "what the @%#$ is THIS &!?#" response to "Last Year." Home VHS didn't exist at the time, so readers couldn't conceive of seeing John Wayne's "The Conqueror" or "The Terror of Tiny Town" in their lifetime (a couple of the films defy efforts to track them down even today); this might be their only exposure to these, um, "gems."

Although Michael Medved's politics disgust me, I will always be thankful to the authors (Harry Medved and Randy Drefyfuss, who notably have sole author credit on later editions) for sparking my interest in Cinema Le Bad which continues to this day.

Even if I don't always agree with them.

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"Worst films in fifty different genres and sub-genres".

Into which genre - or sub-genre - did they place Marienbad? A tough movie to classify as it is.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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They usually didn't specify the genre/sub-genre outright, but this appears to be their "foreign arthouse flick" entry.

Others fall under very narrow, precise categorization (Eisenstein, Hitchcock, and Cecil B. DeMille movies, for example) while still others fall into far broader but still unique slots (blaxploitation, comedy act, Korean war drama, "devil" movie). Google up "Medved & Dreyfuss: The Worst Films of All Time" for a complete list of their choices.

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As I recall the Medveds described Marienbad and Eisenstein's Ivan the Terrible as "over-rated art films", acknowledging that these two films were probably the most controversial choices for inclusion in a book about "bad" movies.

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I think that the 50 worst films and Turkey books are a bit unfairly judged now. Yeah they were a bit smug. poorly researched and scatty but at the time they were actually quite innovative and opened up knowledge to a lot of titles and film makers that film goers had not seen or even heard of. Also keep in mind this was pre VHS so many of the films were badly chopped up, rare to see and in poor print condition. a film like Once upon a time in the West for instance ( not in the books of course) is now considered a classic but 'in the day' it was 40 minutes shorter and made little narrative sense.

As for Marienbad.......... well its experimental, pretty dull and not really that good. That said its certainly not in my list of worst ever.

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