The wife had this chocolate fetish, parents that gave a "together in heaven" TOAST, and when she gets snockered down on the farm, wife goes into get a goodnight kiss from dear old dad.
Were her parents drunks? Was dad incestuous?
Dad was drinking a beer and asked Joe if he wanted one because "two or three beers are ok." Was it a test or was he trying to trip him up?
"Were her parents drunks?"
I'm not sure. I don't think so. But alcoholism is hereditary. So there may have been a subtle clue there.
"Was dad incestuous?"
I really don't think so. She was just a mess.
"Dad was drinking a beer and asked Joe if he wanted one because "two or three beers are ok." Was it a test or was he trying to trip him up?"
In the 60's, men drank the hard stuff. If they were alcoholics they just stuck with beer. At least that's how it's portrayed on Mad Men.
In my case, nickel, if you are dead, someone smoking a cigarette, was his mother.
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I have one beer with my dinner all the time.
shareWas the dad incestuous? Can't really tell by the movie. However I work with a lot of women who are in recovery, a large percentage of them were raped by their fathers when they were young, so I would say yes, very good possibility.
shareI think she was just the daughter of a stoic Scandinavian father who couldn't show affection well and was a stern man on the outside. Remember how she said she couldn't handle it, living at home anymore?
She craved attention - that's why she was so prone to loneliness.
She probably could only show her emotions when she was drinking because she had been taught to be so buttoned up and she didn't want to give up feeling so free.
She could have had a food allergy/sensitivity. That can cause cravings and is usually implicated when people can't stop eating chocolate. Another aggravating circumstance is yeast overgrowth. Yeasties crave sugar. If you get a lot of antibiotics you can kill off the good bacteria and the yeast take over (it is a major problem in ICU care, I have read) which can require both killing the yeast and a heavily restricted diet including no sugar and no alcohol.
Gale Storm wrote that she had this sensitivity and didn't realize going to cocktail parties would lead her into alcoholism. She said she didn't drink because she had problems. She had problems because she drank.
She was already addicted to chocolate and just transferred it to booze. How many wives drank to keep their husband's company and turned into quiet drunks themselves.
No she was too messed up to try and kiss her dad. Her parents could have been
"after all 1 or 2 beers don't hurt" It might have been a test when he asked Joe if he wanted a beer, or also just the idea that beer didn't make you an alcoholic only the hard stuff.
The scene in the greenhouse is one of the most scariest of all time. You keep wanting Joe to stop, but of course he doesn't, and when he finally finds the bottle he doesn't think of sharing it.
I also read that Jack Lemmon's father was dying during the making of the film and it was hard for him to stay focused.
My 2 cents - I think offering him a beer was a test. Catch dear old dad's little smile & nod when Joe declined.
I don't think he was a bad father (incestuous or abusive etc) - I just think he was one of those super tough dads that 1) had really high standards for his little girl and 2) nobody would ever quite be good enough for Kirsten. Loved the bit where Joe tried explaining his PR job and his new FIL just stared at him like an alien...
"We want the finest wines available to humanity. We want them here and we want them now."
Tracesoflove:
re: "In the 60's, men drank the hard stuff. If they were alcoholics they just stuck with beer. At least that's how it's portrayed on Mad Men."
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Please don't think I'm trying to put down your comment or start an argument by anything I say...but I don't get your statement. I've never heard anything, anywhere, 60s or otherwise, where alcoholics stuck with beer while others (non-alcoholics) drank the hard stuff. And I don't agree that that's how it's portrayed on Mad Men, either; Freddy Rumson, the guy played by Joel (?) Murray, is the most obvious example I can think of, on Mad men, of an alcoholic.
(**Mad Men possible spoiler**) Remember, he pees himself standing up after kind of dozing while mixing drinks? He loses his job, and comes back much later sober? Well, he most certainly was NOT a beer drinker. He drank as much or more hard stuff as Don Draper or anyone else.
"How do you feel?"
"Like the Kling-Klang King of the Rim-Ram Room!"
I think Tracesoflove meant the exact opposite of what he said!
And I can't recall more than 2-3 occasions total of ANYONE drinking beer on "Mad Men".
I think it's just one of those things that happened. She started out drinking just a bit, and suddenly she's getting drunk all the time.
Just like some folks go from eating chips every now and then to binge eating each day.
Or some people take up smoking as a habit, and suddenly they're smoking two packs a day.
And then there are those who might do a bit of gambling once a year, and they start doing it more, and suddenly they have to give up their house because they've lost it all.
I really don't know why some people turn to these bad habits all of a sudden. Is it an emotional issue? Genetic? Problems liked to childhood? I'm not sure.
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Jim Hutton (1934-79) and Ellery Queen =
Dad was drinking a beer and asked Joe if he wanted one because "two or three beers are ok." Was it a test or was he trying to trip him up?