Why was he so 'nice'? - The Collector (1965) Discussion

[–] quickchick68 18 years ago

I have to agree maybe if he wasn't so kind she wouldn't have tried escaping all those times, or hitting him in the head. So maybe then she would have lived.
I really loved this movie and book with the madman as a gentle soul, so if anyone knows of any other movies and or books like this I would appreciate your help so much.

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[–] dannyguitar 16 years ago

He's nice cos he has a certain idea of her. He actually changes a bit when she takes her clothes off and he sees her as cheap as a street woman. In the book he is actually pretty nasty in a way after that. He doesn't really want sex (in the book he is pretty much a virgin and once went to a hooker when he got his money but found it horrible)

He appreciates her beauty a lot like the way he collects butterflies. He doesn't want to hurt her or rape her, he just wants to keep her.

It's true that she might've lived if she hadn't tried to escape but who wants to be locked up all the time? He might've been nice to her but he didn't understand her one bit, and no-one can live like that.

***"What are you going to do, bleed on me?"***

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[–] elanor927 15 years ago

It doesn't matter how nice he was to her or how many nice things he bought her. It doesn't change the fact that he kidnapped her, took her away from everything and everyone she loved and kept her in a stuffy, windowless room underground where she was never allowed to see daylight and had to be bound and gagged whenever he did take her out of the cellar. Pretty horrible way to live for anyone.

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[–] WarpedRecord 15 years ago

He seemed a bit too well-adjusted to be a villain. Other than the flashbacks where people tease him at work about his butterfly collection, he seemed to fit into society nicely. It's not like I expected him to be an extreme creep, but I wouldn't have minded a little more tension here. I would think he could get any girl he wanted ... as well as any butterfly.

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[–] Child_OfThe_Moon 15 years ago

he seemed to fit into society nicely.

Most sociopaths do. Even though they lack the essential emotional skills required for normal human behaviour they learn to imitate them very well. Most are very well respected and admired in communities and social circles. Personally I find the idea of a seemingly regular person being a secret sociopath far more disturbing than a stereotypical villain.

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[–] WarpedRecord 15 years ago

Excellent point about sociopaths fitting in to society. The BTK Killer and Jeffrey Dahmer got away with their crimes for years, fit in to their communities, and held normal jobs. And you're very right about that veneer of normalcy creating a more disturbing villain.

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[–] Loomis_Orange 15 years ago

Terrance Stamp is one of my favorite actors. I love him as Toby Dammit!

I bet we all have neighbors who are sociopaths. If they lack courage, they stay mental killers. If they start early they become.. yea.. all depends. Haven't you been in a store or a restaurant somewhere and kinda felt some weird vibe from someone?

Women sort of have a sense for that since we're usually the victims..

Whither goest thou, America, In thy shiny car in the night? ~ Jack Kerouac

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[–] adeoetregi 15 years ago

Sociopaths, lacking empathy with other human beings, pursue their ends heedless of any emotional, physical or financial cost that this may involve to others—but violence is not necessarily involved. The violent sociopath is only one variety: with some sociopaths it is the metaphorical stab in the back one has to worry about far more than the physical—and women can exhibit sociopathy in this regard as much as men.

____________________________________
Still Scottish, Always British—Quis Separabit?

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[–] Loomis_Orange 15 years ago

That's a good point.

Whither goest thou, America, In thy shiny car in the night? ~ Jack Kerouac

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[–] WarpedRecord 15 years ago

It is, indeed, a thin line between emotional and physical abuse (as well as love and hate, of course, but the Persuaders and the Pretenders said it so much better than I could).

Brian Wilson expressed it best in "Good Vibrations." He has spoken about how dogs will bark at certain people but not at others. I always trust my vibe about people. For one thing, anyone who is cruel to animals is just a step away from abusing a human.

And yes, I've been in a restaurant many times where I had a bad vibe about the waiter or another customer. People who are rude or condescending have a pent-up range that is likely to come out sometime with unfortunate results.

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[–] BlueGreen 14 years ago

If they lack courage, they stay mental killers.

It has nothing to do with courage, in my opinion.
To put it clinically, their frontal lobes are intact enough for rational self-control to work.
Also, actual sociopathic killers often lack the intelligence necessary NOT to underestimate the intelligence of others.
They are not courageous: they are damaged enough and (very often) not intelligent enough. (Or they wouldn't think they could get away with it indefinitely.)

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[–] aeternus_proeliator 14 years ago

He wasn't a sociopath. He had empathy, he felt for her and had emotions that contradicted with his own.

A sociopath doesn't feel that. They can feel emotions, they can just not feel them for anyone else. Sociopaths can be made as well as born, however they are defined by their inability (either through belief or mental abnormality) to feel for someone else.

Clegg fit into society because he was a nice guy in it. All his mechanations about Miranda didn't come from NOT caring for her but because he was in a world of his own where he was convinced she would understand and care about him as much as her. His view was twisted, not his emotions.

It's like saying you don't actually care for someone if you hurt them to help them. You can and you can not be a sociopath because of it.

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[–] Child_OfThe_Moon 14 years ago

He wasn't a sociopath. He had empathy, he felt for her and had emotions that contradicted with his own.

I don't think he really felt much for her. He claimed he "loved" her, but then that's what a lot of pedophiles say about the children they abuse. All Clegg had was an obsessive desire to own Miranda because she was a pretty young girl, and not much else. When you "love" someone, don't you feel at least the slightest bit of sorrow when they die? What emotions did he have that contradicted his own?

When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man

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[–] Zoomorph 14 years ago

It's pretty obvious in this film that he loved her and that's why he kidnapped her, treated her well, and kept giving her chances, felt betrayed, etc.

That said, the definition of a sociopath is kind of stupid IMO. They probably all experience emotions, but they are also strong enough of mind to choose which ones they will act on or not. Sociopaths are sometimes(? always?) the most rational people, so it's funny to hear people babbling about how they are insane or irrational or illogical. It may seem that way to the "normal" person's tiny perspective, but that's just because they aren't intelligent enough to understand it.

~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~

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[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

Yes he was nice to her and very considerate about her privacy and all that but he still kidnapped her, he wouldn't let her go and that constitute lack of love and lack of respect for her. He was basically wanting to enforce chemistry between himself and her rather then let it come naturally like for example if he had just tried approaching her, courting her properly none of the chloroform or any of that but no, we went for the kidnapping. Whatever his intensions were, he had no right to take her and expect her to just suddenly love her unconditionally because it would have all been to keeping herself alive or to escape or to win back her freedom. Even when she tried seducing him, he knew that she was using sex as a way to pay for her freedom but he wouldn't do that and in the book he seemed unable to have sex maybe due to I.E. or he is jus imputent. Anyways they never would be happy together, she would hate him deep down inside her because she can never escape so she would have just accepted her situation and never try to escape till stockholm syndrome kicks in.

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[–] Zoomorph 14 years ago

But girls want to be collected too. They like security. This guy obviously lacked the normal social skills for courting, but he had his own methods analogous to how he collected butterflies.

As he explains at the end, he needs to find a girl who is not so full of herself, who is still able to respect him and learn something outside the normal social norms.

It seems it would be quite hard to get a woman to love you after kidnapping her, you really need to make a good selection before going to all that work!

Now if women are disposable, it's not so hard, you can just bury them. But I'm not sure if this guy would kill girls who rejected them or not. When Miranda died he was quite upset... although he got over it quickly.

Anyways.. interesting film!

~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~

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[–] Echo_in_big_sky 14 years ago

Part of his charm I guess.

Always the wedding officiant, never the bride.

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