MovieChat Forums > Doctor Zhivago (1965) Discussion > I have tried and tried, but I just don't...

I have tried and tried, but I just don't get it - please help!


I can't understand what the hell is going on in the first part of the movie. I must have seen it four times and it just isn't coming together.

1. Going back to the very start of the movie, are we supposed to believe that someone is actually that much of a complete moron to not know their own mother's name? "Her name was mummy." We're supposed to swallow that?

2. Lara is dating her own uncle? WTF? And she's cheating on Pasha with him? And the uncle owns the dress shop that Lara and her mother work in? Is any of that right?

3. What is that place with the private rooms where she's wearing that very red dress? Some kind of whorehouse? It seems like the uncle knows his way around, because he starts to go into his regular room and is put off. Is it like a no-tell motel from the 1910s? I don't get what that place is, or why Lara would ever go there. At this point, isn't she still supposed to be proper, some kind of virgin or something? Is she the slut the uncle calls her out to be?

4. Why is the mom committing suicide all of a sudden? Is it because the mom knows that her daughter is screwing her own uncle? Even before the non-rape rape, aren't we supposed to infer that the Lara and the uncle are getting it on? Or is he just an "uncle", not an actual uncle? But how can any of this be a shock to the mom, when she saw Lara and the uncle go out together to the restaurant the night before? Help!

5. Everyone is seriously trying to set up Yuri and Tonya? And he's kissing her and going along with it? And then marrying her and having kids? Ewwwww!!! They were brought up as brother and sister their whole lives, for chrissakes! WTF?!?!?! It's like Greg marrying Marcia! What the hell is going on this movie? Is everyone an incestuous sicko?

6. Pasha is asking the uncle for Lara's hand in marriage? This gets more and more f'd up as we go! Why would he do that? Who is the uncle to give consent - the closest male relative? Why would the uncle seemingly consent, at least to Pasha? And he's 26 and she's 17? Yikes! Robbing the cradle, aren't we? What, was Pasha cruising the high schools for dates?

7. Why is Lara coming back from the front with the "deserters" and what is Yuri doing going to the front in that same scene? Shouldn't the both of them be in some sort of hospital, which Yuri was in just a few minutes before that, and which they both end up in a few minutes later?

I may be understanding what's going on, but it's all very, very confusing to me. Even if I'm getting it, it makes no sense. Can someone explain some of the whys to me?





I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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I'll give it a shot ...

1. She was separated from her mother under chaotic circumstances and at a very young age. Also, her life after that may have been very traumatic. That might explain it.

2. I don't think Komarovsky is her actual uncle, but he should be sort of a father figure, being her mother's boyfriend. Instead, he's a creep who seduces and abuses her.

3. It's a place where rich dudes meet their mistresses. Lara is kind of carried away with the rich life and attention. He gave her the dress and manipulates her all the way, although there is the suggestion that she enjoys the sex, at least at first.

4. Mom finds out that Komarovsky is having sex with her daughter, which is kind of a bad-news double whammy.

5. But they're not blood relations. Yuri was brought up by the Gromykos but not formally adopted.

6. Yeah, as the mother's boyfriend he's sort of a foster father.

7. Not sure -- the hospitals they were working in before may have just sort of collapsed as the army all deserted. Everything in flux, everybody moving around?

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Well done.


"Baby, I don't care."

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Thanks. Please accept this not as a criticism of your explanation, but as a criticism of the underlying work itself.

1. Still not buying it. That's just dumb.

2. Okay, now that makes sense. But still, ewww. That's a total Woody Allen move. Gross.

3. Really gross.

4. Disgustingly gross.

5. Beyond gross.

6. Father? Uncle? Lover? Sooooo gross.

7. Okay, got it.

Thanks again.

Okay, so now the million dollar question. Who cares? As I now understand it (thank you) this is a gross story, not told well. By knowing so much about it, you must like it. Why? What's in this for you? What do you get out of this movie?




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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No problem. I'm not offended.

It may be gross, but a lot of what humans do IS gross. I'm fascinated by how people react in extreme circumstances, both in life and in art, and by how personal lives and huge historical events interact as microcosm and macrocosm of the human condition.

I have an additional interest in this period of Russian history because it is when my grandfather left Finland, which was then a Russian territory, for the United States in order to avoid being drafted into the (Tsarist) Russian Army.

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Did you read the book? Does it inform your opinion?

Because, yes, it seems to me that the great sweep of the October Revolution and the subsequent Civil War could be told from a personal point of view.

However, having not read the book, this movie doesn't do that for me.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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Have you ever read any book? Your OP is moronic.

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Why, no. In fact, this is being typed by a cat walking across the keyboard. I think you should change your username to F@ckface von Clownstick.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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LOL! Is that how the rest of your 3rd grade class talks?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Others have supplied some of the needed info. I will fill in a few gaps:

1. The girl was separated from her mother at around age 6. While we drill into young kids their name, address and phone number when they are preschoolers, this is not true in all cultures and it is fairly common for young children from other backgrounds to be ignorant of their family name, birthday and other details we take for granted. When it has been my business to interview school-age children (often refugees, but sometimes born here) from central Asian or African backgrounds, it was not unusual for them not to know their birthday, their address, their surname even, and while I rarely had to ask them their parents' names, I did so in some cases in order to verify their address or whatever, and frequently they did not know the formal names, just nicknames or appellations like "Mummy." So, while the girl's ignorance seems incredible to us, I don't find it all that unusual. Also, the fact that she did not appear to recognize the name "Lara" when Yevgraf asked her if her mother was ever called "Lara," rings true to the script, where Komarovsky almost always called Lara "Larissa."

It's also an established fact that traumatic experiences affect children's memories to a great extent, and over time (this was 13-15 years later) they lose much memory of details, a protective effect in most cases. So while I understand that her lack of recognition rings false to many modern viewers, I find it realistic.

2. The film never suggests Komarovsky is Lara's uncle. It is made clear that he is her mother's lover, although he is presented as a business adviser and helper because of his friendship with Lara's late father (he tells Pasha this in the scene in the diner, and it comes up elsewhere in the film as well). When he takes Lara to the fancy restaurant and later buys her the dress, he presents her as his niece in order to allay suspicion of what he is doing with such a young woman. She never calls him uncle or refers to him as an uncle, though.

The film doesn't tell us this, but in the book it is described how Komarovsky has been lusting after Lara for a while and given her lecherous looks but not gone farther. She was quite naive and innocent for a long time (in a way we would find impossible to imagine today) and did not suspect his true intentions, instead regarding him with the respect owed to an adult benefactor.

Lara's mother's business was her own (she is a seamstress of some talent), but obviously receives some support financially from Komarovsky. It's never stated that he owns the place but It IS clear that Lara's mother depends on Komarovsky both financially and personally. It's not clear whether she actually loves him or not but there is emotional dependence.

I'm not sure you could say she was "cheating" on Pasha at that point. They were not then engaged, although Pasha wanted them to be. Lara was a virgin and Komarovsky basically committed statutory rape, as he was in a position of trust (like a schoolteacher or doctor would be in our society) and he abused and took advantage of that. Lara loves Pasha, and vice versa, and she confessed to him what happened and he forgives and wants to protect her, but this in the book is the turning point away from his naive idealism.

4. The mom attempts suicide, but does not succeed. In the book there are more reasons for her attempt than the movie addresses, but though she suspects Komarovsky has seduced Lara, she does not actually know, and she apologizes (in the film this is addressed in the diner scene) for thinking ill of him. Afdter all, it's important to her to have his approval and support. But thinking that she may have lost Komarovsky, and that her daughter's career prospects and future have been jeopardized, may have been the triggers (as presented in the movie: the book had some political causes as well). Both book and movie make it clear the mom survived the attempt, thanks to Zhivago and co.'s intervention.

The mom also has cause to blame herself, since it was at her insistence that Komarovsky take Lara out to the ball and dinner and get her out in society. That this backfired so badly, and she missed all the signs, probably made her feel guilty.

5. "Everyone" isn't trying to set them up, it is Anna, Tonya's mother, who is the prime mover. She was the reason for Zhivago joining their family (as she was a friend of his mother), and she is very "artsy" and supports his poetry writing and reflective side. While the two children were brought up together, they were not actually treated as brother and sister. Tonya went to expensive fancy schools abroad, while Zhivago studied locally to learn a trade (medicine) as he was expected to support himself, not to inherit any wealth from the Gromekos. Clearly they were all very fond of him though.

It's unusual for unrelated kids brought up together to develop romantic feelings for each other (studies of children raised in a kibbutz confirm this), but it's not anomalous. It's clear that Zhivago's love for Tonya is real but not especially erotically driven. Nevertheless, he consents to marrying her, possibly because he does really care for Tonya, and because he knows Anna is dying (she knows it too) and this will be a way to thank her for her nurturing him over the years. Also, they weren't "together" all that time, as Tonya was educated abroad and came home only at rare intervals.

6. Pasha addresses Komarovsky because he is the adult male authority in Lara's situation, being her mother's advisor and lawyer (Pasha doesn't know that he is also the mother's paramour). Komarovsky is no relation to Lara or her mother, although it's possible he is Lara's guardian should the mother die. But she was in the hospital at the time they met in the diner, and since he was the mother's consultant on all matters, it was appropriate for him to be the one Pasha asked - -though Pasha did not need his permission, legally, in all likelihood.

7. Pasha and Lara have known each other for years (in the novel, they meet because Pasha and Lara live in the same building). Also in the novel, Pasha is younger than Lara. The only information we have about Pasha's age in the film is what he tells Komarovsky. Since Komarovsky has insinuated that Pasha is too young to marry Lara, it's possible that his saying he is 26 is an exaggeration. But the teaching job he has been offered is his first and he has graduated from university, according to this scene, so he is defintiely older than Lara in the film. But older men marrying younger women was quite common in those days. Young men got themselves settled financially first, and young women often did not pursue higher education. Remember Titanic, where Rose's fiance was 13 years older than she.

8. Lara and Yuri both end up going with a whole bunch of refugees and deserters. The hospital scenes come just afterwards. Zhivago was some kind of mobile medical assistance on the Ukraine front, they meet after the shootout with the Tsarist officers. When Lara offers to help with the wounded, they travel together and Zhivago tells her he recognizes her. THEN a bit later they arrive at a makeshift hospital, where they are in several scenes together (apparently they spend 6 months in that location).


Hope this helps.

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Wow, I was going to reply but you beat me to it, and much more thoroughly. Zhivago is one of my favorite films.

But this link to a shooting script of the film may help the OP (or others who like to see the text of something):

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/drzhivago.pdf

According to this script, the answer to (3) in the OP's post is, the scene is a hotel, not a house of prostitution. Komarovsky is a regular patron -- he travels on business a lot.

The script contains scenes that aren't in the film -- several about the backstory between Zhivago's father and Komarovsky. I guess they were edited out for length, or because the material isn't really necessary to the story on film. There is a reference in the movie to Komarovsky's negative involvement with Zhivago's father, in the scene where Yuri dresses Komarovsky's wound.

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You put a lot of work into your post so I'm disinclined to diss you or otherwise insult you. That said.. it really rather remedial understanding to "get" this film. I used to use it as a litmus test to see how bright a girlfriend was. The worst was an MD who was completely baffled about both history and symbolism. Like.. "What's a Boleshevik"? "What war is this?" "What's with the Balalaika"? I showed her the door. Too bad.

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Jgroub, your post made me laugh. I just watched the movie on TCM. I came here to check out what others had to say about it. Thanks for the laugh. I do like the film. I'd love to see all of David Lean's movies. For me this is a sweeping love story with the Russian Revolution as the backdrop. Marcia and Greg - priceless.

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OP: of all your stupid questions/comments, your thinking Victor was Lara's uncle is the most hilarious! Stick to Zootopia or something on your challenged intellectual level.

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[deleted]

HIGH FIVE!!!👏👏👏

I couldn't believe the OP...the depth of a saucer, maybe?

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