MovieChat Forums > All in the Family (1971) Discussion > Archie was abused by his Father

Archie was abused by his Father


In the shoebooty episode, Archie reveals to Mike, albeit in a drunken state, that his father hit him and shoved him in a closet for seven hours. It is also revealed that Archie's father taught him to be bigoted. It is a very startling episode, and the reveal comes last. Archie grew up in the house of a violent bigoted man, a man who probably drank too much and was violent when drunk.
I have always wondered the point of this episode, coming so late into the series run. Was it a way to humanize the Archie character, a sort of explanation. Archie came from a different time, than Mike, he came from the depression era, when food was scarce and times were really hard, and if a Father knocked his kid around under the auspices of being strict, nobody cared.
It dawns on Mike that Archie was abused and she kind of begins to realize what is the source of most of Archie's ignorance and backward thinking.
Was the point of this episode, to cast a light on child abuse and its lingering consequences. or was it to soften and humanize the Bunker character. regardless,it did both.
typical of All in the family, with its large audience, it took this opportunity to instruct with a psychological study and the underlying causes of many problems usually begin in childhood, and the effects of parental child abuse. Any person who can lock a child in a closet for seven hours, is the one with the problem. A serious one. It is also important that Archie stopped the cycle of violence and never hit Gloria no matter how much his father tried to knock the humanity out of him. Archie though bigoted was not violent, and had compassion and empathy.

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I was born in '62 and physically teaching a child a lesson was commonplace when I was a kid and not necessarily abuse. Archie mentioned his old man busted his own hand on Archie "teaching him to do good". It wasn't necessarily considered abuse. I think we could use a little of that today.
Since season eight was intended to be the final year, so it was the last chance to feature these stories, such as when Gloria and Mike first met.

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The expression on Mike's face after hearing Archie talk about his father is open to vast interpretation; what exactly is Mike thinking? Is he reflecting on his own relationship with his father? Does he decide that he has been coming down too hard on Archie all these years, now believing that Archie was a product of his own upbringing? Does Mike now realize that Archie is a lot like his own dad, and that his lashing out at Archie was his way of taking out his anger on his father? Mike surely did not talk to his dad the way he talked to Archie. We'll never know, but I believe that Reiner's expression is among the finest acting he ever did. Powerful performance, powerful scene.

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I always took it that Mike realized he should've been more tolerant of his own father; he was the breadwinner.

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Mike's parents were killed in a car accident so the thing that might of been really dramatic there was that Mike probably never got the chance to mend fences with his father and perhaps the look on his face at the end of the episode was the look of regret there...


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The expression on Mike's face after hearing Archie talk about his father is open to vast interpretation


which is the beauty of that scene.
i always thought Mikes response was more about Archie, seeing Archie lying there, almost like a little kid, tucked under a blanket, it made me think that Mike really felt bad for Archie, and the childhood he had to endure. How hard do you have to swing on a little kid to break your hand on him. And who locks their kid in a closet for seven hours. like most people from that generation Archie was not want to talk about his problems, or how tough his childhood was, but he opened up to Mike in this circumstance, almost as a way to say that Mike, who was now a Father should better understand what it was to be a father, and have that obligation to raise a child correctly. Being intoxicated was a way for the two to properly communicate, with defenses down. Basicly its a one way conversation, with Archie bearing his soul to Mike, probably telling him things he never told anybody before. mike really doesn't say too much about his own upbringing, which is why i interpret it as Mike feeling bad for Archie and beginning to see where all that hatred comes from. And maybe Mike is thinking that he is more tolerant of others and has a better nature because he had that opportunity, and luxury to be so, he never grew up during hard economic times, where food was scarce and times were tough. being a Father and breadwinner during the depression was a form of bravery. When there was no work, going home to house full of kids all needing clothes and food was a tough proposition. Quite a few men broke under the pressure and deserted their families.

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i have watched it all these years and that was the only time i remember archie saying n'gger. i just noticed it last night.maybe other stations omitted that over the years but otherwise i would have guessed he never said it.

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Probably tore up O'Connor to say that word. Phenomenal scene, though.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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You don't hear Caucasians uttering the word too often on sitcoms. A couple of times on The Jeffersons - once by Tom, using it in suppositional terms, and once by a KKK member.

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Oh, on the Jeffersons it was said A LOT. There were several times George said it, and it makes my eyes bug out every time he does. I realize this isn't the way in which you're meaning the word to be said, but it is in fact, the way that George says it that makes my eyes bug out. I can't explain why I feel it's different when he says it than when a black man today says it to another black man, but it just is.


EMOTICONS ARE BACK! YAY!   

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Sanford and Son showcases the word frequently, but you have to watch it on TV One, as it's usually edited out on every other station.

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I'm not really so sure about that part about Archie not hitting Gloria. He mentioned to Edith about when you deal with a fresh kid, you hit them...

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I think he left that responsibility to Edith, and if she'd never done it, then he said that to drill it into her head.

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Archie seemed like a belter.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I guarantee it, if they had had a son. But I would never call it abuse. Not from Archie.

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Oh, no. A little tap on the bum never hurt no one.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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He might've indulged more heavily (when the kid was older), but I still wouldn't call it abuse like these fairies today.

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I'll say. My dad whipped us pretty good sometimes.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I used to get the belt, but my brother got it worse, being a complete a-hole to the parents.

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Edith actually DID hit Gloria in Edith's 50th Birthday...

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Gloria: "You're not my mother anymore!".

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Gloria knew she had to get her mother out of the deep dark hole she had fallen into, having been through a similar incident but not as severe and psychological damaging. So she says the worst possible thing she can say to turn her mothers fear into anger, and it works, When Edith slapped Gloria, something about that snapped her back to reality. It was probably the only time in her life she ever hit her daughter.
Gloria takes in stoically, but as soon as Archie and Edith leave to go to the Police station Gloria breaks down crying. The question is, why does Gloria break down like that.

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She felt bad.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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Archie's bark was worse than his bite. He probably believed that a man does not hit a woman.

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Don't worry Archie and his father David came to terms to the point of David visiting Archie a year before in Meet The Bunkers...
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I take it they had a seance.

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One thing that comes to mind about this, was the movie Stand By Me in which, ironically enough, was directed by Rob Reiner. There was the scene where Teddy Duchamp was defending his abusive father when he was arguing with the junkyard owner. Perhap Rob Reiner used some of those elements from the episode for that movie scene...

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Those events in "Stand By Me" were clearly abuse, opposed to what Archie had experienced as a youth, which was standard for the times.

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Yeah, I know. The fact that the father burning Teddy's ear was way beyond what young Archibald "Shoebooty" Bunker had to deal with, but my point was how even though Teddy was abused by his dad, he still looked up to his dad and defended him when the junkyard owner was disrespecting him calling him a "looney"...

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Yah, that's probably what Mike was mulling over in the storeroom after Archie had passed out.

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I'm surprised you've seen Stand By Me, Fletch.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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I think I saw it at the movies. It wasn't my choice. I was surprised to discover it was directed by Reiner. I didn't think it made too much sense for Richard Dreyfuss to narrate and not appear.

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It was a very popular movie. It was on tv last night as a matter of fact. Did you enjoy it?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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It was OK. I did see it again on a movie channel back in the '90s.
But I'll never forget that godawful title song. I heard it many times as a kid in the back of my parents' car along with scores of other excruciating tunes. So I was less than thrilled to continually hear it some more after the movie was released (the job I had at the time sadistically had a soft-rock station piped into every room in the damn building).
The Simpsons made a version of the movie.

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Seems like you're very closed minded when it comes to music. It's hard rock or metal or nothing. You're missing out on great stuff. Stand By Me has a wonderful oldies soundtrack.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Matt Roberts. You were great.

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You're right. I am closed-minded about that, partially due to the aforementioned experiences in the back of my parents' car (and schoolbuses).

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Yah, that's probably what Mike was mulling over in the storeroom after Archie had passed out.


so what we are saying is that Mike after losing his job at the college, became a movie director and made the Movie "Stand by Me," and he remembered that conversation with Archie in the storeroom, and it used it for a scene in the movie....it all makes sense now.

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Yeah, I know. The fact that the father burning Teddy's ear was way beyond what young Archibald "Shoebooty" Bunker had to deal with, but my point was how even though Teddy was abused by his dad, he still looked up to his dad and defended him when the junkyard owner was disrespecting him calling him a "looney"..

Classic Stockholm syndrome. . show that emotional abuse intermixed with small acts of kindness can bond some victims to their abusers. .

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Excellently stated, D.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Archie to Mike: "You've always been like a son to me. You never did nothin I told ya to do".

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Funny line.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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There was a sizable article in the Boston Globe about that episode the day it premiered (it aired on Sundays at the time) and it mentioned (gave away actually) many of the lines used, such as "You never see an Oriental without a camera".

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One of my all time favorite lines. And the visual, I believe, of Archie talking out the wrong side of his mouth when he whispered it to Edith is also hysterical.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Chong's comment at Archie's attempted baptism was humorous. "And I can guarantee the certificate won't come in a fortune cookie".

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"Chang, Chong, Whatever", was funny. "Mr. Binker. That's Bunker. Whatever." lol.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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That was another one they mentioned in the newspaper article.
"Ching - Chang - Chong". They should've had "spoiler alerts" back then.

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What's so spoiler about that?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Well, it takes the fun out of it if you know it's coming. "You never see an oriental without a camera" was an even bigger spoiler.

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I heard a great one today. It was Archie's 50th birthday party where he thinks he's 49 and it's a surprise party. He's complaining how he hates surprises because he always sees them coming like the one in work with the "What?Who?Me?" routine. Edith is pleading with him, and finally says: "Oh, come on, Archie. People have been looking forward to shouting at you all day." Lol!!

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Yah, that's a great one.

"Jo" sticks out like a sore thumb when they all attempt to hide when Archie comes to the door. I guess the actress was too decrepit to walk up two steps.

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I thought the same exact thing.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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They all should've hidden in the kitchen.

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Yup. The old lady never would've made it. She barely made it over to the steps.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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If I remember correctly Quigley had to help her over to the table, but the camera moved away to try and hide it. I've seen her on shows in the late '60s and early '70s and it didn't look like she could walk too well.

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She probably died shortly thereafter.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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You're right. I just looked it up. She croaked in May '76.

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Croaked? Lol. Ribit.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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She was way younger than Quigley, though.

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He died around that time too, though.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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The Grim Weeper (as Archie put it) was probably eyeing him for some time.

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Sure looked it. He looked like Skelator as it was.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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A friend's elderly father took a security job a few years back and he always joked that the old man looked like Harry Feeney.

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Refresh my memory on who Harry Feeney is, please?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Lol.
Burt Muston's first appearance on AITF. He was a security guard at Archie's work who showed up in the middle of the night to inform Archie of the results of his snooping around the boss' office.

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Right. See? Your memory, when it comes to All in the Family at least is sharp as knives.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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The sequence where he talks about his "gizmos" was edited out in the original syndicated version.

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Good thing for dvds.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Absolutely, although I did have them all uncut on VHS.

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Still have the tapes? Or something to play them on?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Yah, but the last time I checked, I couldn't connect it to my widescreen.

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So...no.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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My last regular TV got thrown out in the foreclosure fiasco. That was horrible.

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Couldn't even get one anymore, unless it was at a second hand store.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Probably. Mine was a flat screen tube TV. Weighed a ton.

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Yes they did. I notice you frequent the Rockford Files board too, huh?

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Another show I watched during its original run. And it ended around the same time as AITF.

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Never really watched Rockford.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Wasn't your typical detective show. In fact, there weren't many of those I liked to start with.

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Plus, James Gardner is a handsome devil.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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Lol. He played a great character. And the show had the right mix of humor.

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That's all you need. A good mix.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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It wasn't cheesy, like the original Starsky and Hutch and crap.

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No interest in that.

RIP Gene Wilder. One of the funniest people of all time. RIP Robert Vaughn

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The Aaron Spelling shows were the cheesiest.

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He sure made a mint, though.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. 2016 is the worst!

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Plenty of people like TV cheese. I'm not one of them.

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You don't even like tv drama for the most part.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. 2016 is the worst!

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True, but it's a different animal.

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Perhaps. You're somewhat narrow minded when it comes to shows.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. 2016 is the worst!

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Sometimes I just need nudging. When I first saw the commercials advertising the brand new show called "Two and a Half Men", it sounded like it might be funny. But I never watched it until I saw a rerun on TV at my previous restaurant job, like nine years ago. It was a freaking riot and I've been watching it ever since.

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Yeah, but you're not gonna go back and watch shows that have been off the air for 20 years already or something.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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The age of the show doesn't matter.

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It's never to late Cheers. 

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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Some things will never happen, like Friends.

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Well, I agree on that one, but hopefully Cheers isn't in the Friends category.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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I'd have to try and approach it with a fresh eye - my introduction to it years ago was in a bad way.

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How was that again?

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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That Thursday night lineup was a real drag. I was a guest at someone's house every week and they insisted on watching The Cosby Show and Family Ties (and I couldn't stand either of them), then Cheers came on. Great co-stars, but I loathed the soap opera BS of the two main characters. Whiny Diane really got under my skin. Night Court followed, which was the only one I liked, but I was usually out of there by then.

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Maybe you'll like the Sam/Diane dynamic now that you're older? Or at least still enjoy the co stars. Or maybe you prefer Rebecca. What were you doing as a guest at this friends house, anyway?

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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A guy I worked with had an extensive set of weight-lifting equipment in his cellar and we both used it three nights a week. Thursday was one of the nights. After we worked out, his wife would come home from work and we'd drink beer and watch TV.

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Drinking beer after working out seems pointless.

RIP Gene Wilder. RIP Robert Vaughn. RIP Carrie Fisher. RIP William Christopher. 2016 is the worst!

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