underage


i loved this movie when i first saw it when it was released and i was a teenager. i recently saw it again by chance on hbo and was excited to relive the memories, but it occurred to me as i watched it that it actually boils down to a woman having sex with an underage boy. mary kay letourneau?? how things have changed in the past 30 years. i know that the point was to be romantic and bittersweet and it used to be for me, but now i can't shake this other perspective because of the plethora of news about men and women having sex with underage partners.

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But u make it sound as if that was the basis of the whole movie.....

She befriended a teen and from there, they established a cordial relationship....he became aware of his adolescent hormones, her husband died in the war, she was lonely, depressed, overwhelmed, and he happened to be there to comfort her....

This is one of the most underrated movies of the '70's.......

"I'm a bad boy killer, Jay-Z die too/Looking out for Mobb Deep, ni gga when I find u..." Pac

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You are absolutely correct. I thought of this too. Thirty-five years ago nobody even thought twice about the underage aspect. The times they have done changed.

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[deleted]

I think a lot of people thought about the underage aspect. The film was quite controversial in its time.

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All I'm saying is that in this day and age, post-Mary Kay LeTorneau and other recent cases, they wouldn't be able to make this movie today, and certainly not without there being a lot of comment and criticism about it.

But in 1971 no one even thought about that aspect. In fact, most people thought the kid was given the opportunity of a lifetime.

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And what that means is that the times that we live in are SICK, SICK, SICK...
The film is charming, beautifully crafted and moving. It speaks to a very vulnerable part of the (male) psyche in a very pure way... (maybe to the female psyche too, I wouldn't know)...
It is not a film about sick people, it is not a film that sick people will get sick pleasure from watching.
If society is to progress and be truly caring, the collective mindset must move away from the notion that relationships such as are depicted in this film are to be frowned upon. The boy was following his God- or Nature-given instincts; the woman was crying out for tenderness in a moment of agony. What is to be frowned upon in that?
Mike

'Wisdom would be to see life, really see, that would be wisdom.' JLG.

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At last! A voice of common sense on the sex topic!

Thank you, thank you, Balthazar.

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Beautifully stated & so very true.

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I don't watch it differently. I see it for what it is. Then again I'm not bringing a lot of baggage with me. The fact is that when a film makes a person uncomfortable (And film-makers are well aware of this) it's because it is stirring up something within you. Anyone who reacts passionately against the themes in this film - I would fear - has something within them they have yet to deal with.

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I agree - it is nothing more than their own insecurity or need for politically correct *beep*

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The sex between Hermie and Dorothy was incidental; a grieving widow's need to reach out and be comforted. It wasn't an affair, pre-meditated or particularly passionate. Dorothy knew it was wrong; she couldn't even stay in the same bed with Hermie afterwards or ever see him again. She was alone, heartbroken, confused, desperate, probably a little drunk and Hermie was there for her; it didn't matter at that moment he was only 15 years old. Hermie had his head all full of Oscy's bullsh!t about what sex is like and he experienced first hand (literally) that it's more than reading a book, finding a willing girl and following a list of instructions.

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The sex between Hermie and Dorothy was incidental; a grieving widow's need to blah blah blah

In today's perspective...An adult woman seducing and raping a 15 y/o boy.

http://www.perverted-justice.com/

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I live in a college town and I recently read in the newspaper that a football player got 3 middle school girls drunk and had sex with 2 of them. It only happened once, they were drunk, purely incidental. yea right he is a disgusting perv! This lady had to think of the age difference, I don't care how drunk or high you are it does cross your mind! I am in the middle of watching the movie now, so I haven't seen the end of it.
I think this type movie plot is still made today(think American Pie $hi+brick and Stifflers mom), I think adults still sleep with younger people(more than just MAry Kay L) I think people back then thought it was bad and people now think it is bad.

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In Canada, the legal age for consentual sex is 14. AGE is just a number. Both parties in the movie were mature and consenting - something that makes what they did MORAL even if it doesn't make it legal in Gulag, USA.

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Well, some people do love to jump on the rape bandwagon, don't they? Like no kid was ever willingly sexually initiated by an "older" person before--Dorothy being all of 21, in this case. Nevermind that he was in love with her. Nevermind that he was desirous of the experience, and could've left at any time were he not. Nevermind that many 15-year-olds would sell their souls for the tender first-time experience depicted in this movie. No, in this sanctimonious, sexually hysterical day and age, some people feel more gratified claiming the poor lad was raped -- raped by willingly making love to the woman of his dreams. God bless America.

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I don't call it rape, child molestation, pedophilia, statutory rape, or any of the other comments I've seen used. But sorry, I'm one of those whose viewpoint has changed dramatically since I first saw this movie over 30 years ago. Maybe it's because during the intervening years, I've raised a son myself. I still find many aspects of this movie amusing & touching but...

Dorothy has just had devastating news about her husband, is grief stricken, and possibly a bit drunk. That's the only reason I have any sympathy whatsoever and am prepared to go a little easy on her. She wanted comfort but had planned none of this in advance. Also, I gather she either feels so ashamed of herself afterwards or is too embarrassed to contact Hermie again. So I suppose it's all a little different than a premeditated act strictly for sexual gratification. However...

Hermis is 15 and Dorothy is well into her 20's, I would say, maybe late 20's. Not terribly different from the ages of the female teachers I see on TV every now & then, facing prison sentences for having sex with their young male students. Nobody finds that bittersweet. I don't subscribe to the notion that boys are just a bundle of hormones without emotions, and Dorothy used Hermie, pure and simple. She took advantage of his feelings for her (and his hormones), quite heedless of any consequences for him.

There have been lots of changes in society during the past three decades, many of them not for the good, but I think the fact that some viewers these days are questioning Dorothy's behaviour or even outraged is as it should be. I certainly wouldn't have appreciated a woman Dorothy's age sleeping with my son at age 15. She was traumatized to be sure, but nevertheless, she was the adult and acted badly. Don't make it rosy. Call it like it is.

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When I first saw this Jennifer O Neil comes out naked for the seduction scene. The film was recut and rerated for a reissue and it went from R to PG and lost the nudity. I wonder if the theme had anything to do with this scene never being restored for video or DVD?

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I saw this film when it came out, and it was rated R then. There was no nudity in it. It's the same film you see on the DVD. I think your memory may be playing tricks on you.

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I agree with rrb. When I saw this movie back in the 1970's, there was definitely no nudity.

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I also saw this movie when it first came out in theaters and there was no nudity at all in it.

Don't Make Me Have to Release the Flying Monkeys!


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[deleted]

Sorry for the 4 year delay, I did not see the movie until much later on. I just have to say I agree with you on everything you have said in your post and would like to add onto it:

-Even if the age factor were not involved, Dorothy could still be seen as "using" Hermie in order to cope with her grief.

-Although she does show shame in the sex, I wonder if she would've taken it back or maybe she meant to go all the way with Hermie and simply avoid ever seeing him again- some of Jennifer O'Neil's looks and gestures made it look like she was thinking about whether to go through with the act or not and ultimately decided on the latter. Whatever, the case, I'd take it easy on her for being devastated by her tragedy and choosing to act on Hermie's welfare in the end.

-In reality though, I would not like the idea of my son getting involved with an adult while he is "underage" and definately would HATE him getting involved with underaged kids- most likely would even beat the crap out of him for it.

I still love the movie though and think it is very beautiful masterpiece.

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Today's perspective is stupid. The Victorians would find 21st century people uptight.

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Some people seem to judge a beautiful movie sequence and human behavior by a set of artificial rules and legislations. The notion of underage can only be considered as ‘objective’ when children not yet biologically/sexually mature are concerned. The ‘subjective’ notion we put to it is the result of our legal, social, cultural and/or religious environment. Indeed, it can vary greatly from one country or culture to another. For example, in some civilisations, little girls aged 12 or 13 are already married and give birth. The age of legal sexual majority is also very different from country to country, 12 years old in some and 21 in others, and so on.

Being focused on such legal yardsticks as if people were behaving like preprogrammed robots is completely missing the point and the beauty of it. It is only possible when one simply does not understand what being human is. For what happens between Hermie and Dorothy in Summer Of 42, is as distant from rape as making love is from getting laid.

In my opinion, the notion of rape is here totally out of order for various reasons. First, it is a physical nonsense. Hermie, as a teenager, is as tall as Dorothy and probably stronger. Being physically abused by her against his will seems absurd.
Psychologically speaking it is, of course, more debatable. Yet, at first, it seems Hermie gets exactly what he had been looking for all Summer long. He felt in love with Dorothy and only dreamed of touching, caressing and even kissing her. It seems illogical (although not impossible) he would have backed down once offered. But he obviously does not back down.
Nevertheless, one very important element must, in my view, be added to the debate. Hermie is evidently more mature and reflective than his friends who see their first sexual encounter as nothing more than a recipe or a serie of steps to follow on a piece of paper. On the contrary, Hermie seems to instinctively understand there is much more to it than just the sex. It is probable he was rather disappointed or desoriented by the way things happened between Oscy and Mariam.

Instead, while visiting Dorothy on the fatefull night, Hermie’s attitude is impeccable. He is visibly in awe and quickly adjust to the dramatic situation. In his eyes, Dorothy is not just a sexual object of fantasy anymore. In the last few days, he had the opportunity to befriend her and add a real human dimension to his desire. He is sweet and understanding.
Although we can not say Dorothy shares Hermie’s love interest, it is nevertheless obvious she likes him and has feelings for him (things do unfold not simply because Hermie happens to be there at the ‘right’ time, but also because it is HIM). None of them is using the other one. It is rather an exchange of feelings. Hermie is looking for love and Dorothy is craving for comfort (one can only imagine the agonizing pain she was going through after the loss of her husband and coldly analysing her attitude as abusing a teenager is totally ridiculous). As we can clearly see while they are dancing, both have tears in their eyes.
True, what follows in Dorothy’s bedroom could have been traumatizing or troublesome, to say the least, for Hermie as Dorothy herself feared in her letter. Yet, as she rightly assumed, Hermie eventually came to terms with it and put it in the right perspective. So why can’t we ?

It was a pure and sweet act of love where no racial, social, cultural, religious nor age barrier did exist. There lies all the beauty of it and it is perfectly translated in this beautiful movie.


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Yes, that's basically all the story was, but they dressed it up in a very pretty pckage, put it in front of some lovely scenery and backed it with one of the lovliest musical scores ever put on film, so it was a smash. Of course, if memory serves, Dorothy and Hermie only slept together once. It wasn't an ongoing relationship like Mary Kay and her boy toy. And Dorothy only fell into bed with Hermie because she was grieving over the death of her husband. Without that event, I don't think Dorothy ever would have slept with Hermie.

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if tomorrow,a law was passed making it illegal to have sex with anyone under 50,
would that change the reality of what is normal and right? for centuries,due to
a short life expectancy,it was the norm for mid -teens to be fathers and mothers,and,of course nature/biology gives mid-teens the ability and urges..my point is this puritanical backlash against teen sex that started around 20 years
ago in this country is unhealthy and unrealistic..we should always protect young people from being exploited by teachers,coaches,bosses,etc..but this story
was about a legitimate romance..besides,hermie was 15,not 12,as in the case of marykay...when you and i were 15,we were not innocent babes,and we should not pretend today's 15 year olds are either..this is a beautiful film

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Thank you, ClancyT.

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all of a sudden this movie turned out to be from a beautiful movie to a dirty one.
still a beautiful movie.
thank you too,ClancyT.

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Besides, the crude sexual experience sought by Hermie's friends quite apart from any feelings but albeit with kids of their own age is not much better than the relationship between Dorothy and Hermie. I also have a 15 yr-old son and wouldn't want this to happen to him and I think it's basically wrong for people to have sex outside of a lasting meaningful relationship, but it happens all the time, and the movie just reflects that.

As others have mentioned, Dorothy never planned it and was just amused beforehand by Hermie's "adoration". It seems to me that to say she used him would imply some premeditation on her part. She did act wrongly and thoughtlesslyn but she was totally devastated by her husband's death and probably more than a little drunk.

Herman Raucher both at the beginning and the end of the film makes it clear that what happened between Dorothy and he, that night, had a strong impact on him: It made him feel both sure of himself and very insecure, both important and totally insignificant, which shows how dangerous such relationships are.

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Thank you! Somebody with common sense. Nice to see it in a thread otherwise devoid of it. I would have loved to be the boy in that movie at 15 and would have no regrets about it to this day, I guarantee that.

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[deleted]

This is a useless discussion. People should not make it a habit of judging everything from the political correctness perspective. Appreciate the movie as an art form.

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