MovieChat Forums > The Godfather (1972) Discussion > Essentially Clemenza and Pentangeli are ...

Essentially Clemenza and Pentangeli are the same character?

posted 7 years ago by DamienThorn1976 (74)
18 replies | jump to latest

I'm sure most Godfather fans know that Clemenza was going to be a major character in Godfather II.

Apparently Richard Castellano who played Clemenza wanted a friend to rewrite some of his dialogue in the film and Coppola refused. Instead he replaced the character with Frank Pentangeli and everything that was supposed to be for Clemenza went to Pentangeli.

Was interesting to see some of the flashback deleted scenes.

Clemenza was the one who introduced Hyman Roth to Vito. Vito was the one who caused Hyman to change his name from Pychowsky to Rothstein.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 7 years ago

I'm a huge fan but I never knew the story about Clemenza in II. Interesting.

I did see the scene where Roth is introduced to the Don and he changes his name. I think it was in a cut of the films called The Godfather Epic, which had both I and II cut together chronologically along with what seemed like a hundred deleted scenes. It was 7 hours long!! But I loved it.

[–] DamienThorn1976 (74) 7 years ago

I have both Godfather and Godfather II on DVD.

Listened to the audio commentary on both and Coppola said it was a major disappointment that Richard Castellano didn't get a chance to reprise his role as Clemenza from the first film.

Coppola said he "wrote himself out of a problem", by killing off Clemenza, instead of having to accept the actors stipulations. Giving the Clemenza story over to Pentangeli.

Same as the ending of Godfather II when Michael is telling the family that he's going to join the army. Brando was supposed to appear in the scene but at the last minute didn't show up because he didn't feel like Paramount treated him well after the success of the first Godfather.

Coppola then did a rewrite with Michael just sitting alone whilst the family greet Vito for his birthday.

I've never seen both films in chronological order. I remember Pacino talking about that during the 45th anniversary interview with the cast.

Was wondering what he was referring to but now you mention The Godfather epic, I seem to remember. Still would like to watch that.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

I love The Godfather 2 and consider it to be a perfect film. However, I also knew that Pentangelli's character was supposed to be for Clemenza's, and I think that it would've served the film better and had more resonance with us the audience if it was indeed Clemenza's betrayal and lost over Pentangelli's. The last scene however with the 'missing Brando' I think served the film well and was much better without him, it served to highlight that nostalgia and eminence of Vito Corleone.

I really recommend you check out The Godfather Epic, it is a great way to appreciate these films even more and it offers a new perspective you may not have considered if you have not seen it.

[–] DamienThorn1976 (74) 7 years ago

Thanks for the reply.

I haven't seen the Godfather epic, but I'll definitely check it out. I've read a lot of the books including the most recent "Family Corleone" by Ed Falco.

Regarding Pentangelli, Clemenza switch. Wouldn't it have been possible for Michael V Gazzo to just play Clemenza?

In other words, when actors get replaced nowadays for the sequel, most people don't bat an eyelid. Probably a lot less common back in the early 70s. But being less than common was what made Godfather and Coppola actually more appealing.

Your right, Clemenza betraying Michael in that way would have been more powerful, given that we'd have had more time to get to know the character and have more invested in it. At the end of Godfather, Clemenza has the scene where he embraces Micahel as Don Corleone. Seemed as if Micahel had everyone on side.

I also think Michael sitting on his own while everything is happening around him adds to the ending whereas had Brando been there he'd likely have stolen the ending.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Update us once you've seen TGF Epic!

I've never read the other TGF books, would you recommend them? I'm starting to read TGF Returns, is it any good?

Also, Clemenza would've symbolized Michael's last link to his father's style of ruling. He was of the old regime, with Clemenza gone, it is now truly Michael's empire.

[–] Rceditor (55) 6 years ago

Do you know where we could find The Godfather Epic? I've been trying to catch it for the longest.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 6 years ago

Unfortunately, it was never released for purchase. HBO had it available on their "on-demand" streaming service at one point, and it looks like xfinity and Verizon FIOS has it now.

[–] Rceditor (55) 6 years ago

Oh, great! Ill look it up. Thanks.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 6 years ago

I'm not sure how you can get access to it. My cousin had the vhs of it in the beginning, then later I downloaded it off a torrent. So if that's ok with you, I recommend downloading it.

[–] jay440 (107) 7 years ago

From Richard Castellano's IMDB page:

[on why he was not in The Godfather: Part II (1974)] "I saw Clemenza as a teacher. He teaches how to make spaghetti, how to use the gun. [Coppola] can't tell me that Clemenza, after years of loyalty to the old man, would go in and testify against organized crime. Not unless you proved to me... that he had become a fearful man, that he had become a betrayer. The demands on me were impossible. I had settled on a price and everybody else's was settled upon mine. [Coppola] had me losing weight to play Clemenza as a young man. I was down to 194 pounds. When I received the script five minutes later, it had me rolling in at 300 pounds... The next thing, I saw Coppola quoted as saying that I asked for more money than anyone else, that I asked to rewrite the script. Once the lie gets out, the lie is told, and it takes."

[–] DamienThorn1976 (74) 7 years ago

I heard at one point Brando was being considered for the part of young Vito in Godfather II before De Niro was cast. Not sure if that's true or not.

But considering young Vito was played by another actor. Robert De Niro. Young Tessio was played by John Aprea. Bruno Kirby ended up playing young Clemenza.

It may have seemed a little difficult to see why one actor would play the young part, whereas Brando and Abe Vigoda weren't asked to play the young Vito and Tessio.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 7 years ago

I'm glad he decided to go with a different set of actors for the younger versions.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 7 years ago

He lost 100 lbs for the role, that's crazy! But also good, because he was very overweight.

As it turned out, I think the actor who played Frankie Five Angels did a great job. Very sympathetic character, and funny too -- I still crack up when he's trying to teach the band an Italian song and they misinterpret and launch into "Pop Goes The Weasel" instead.

[–] DamienThorn1976 (74) 7 years ago

Ha. Think he's trying to teach them the song from the wedding scene in the first film as well which makes it funnier.

In hindsight, the song at the start of The Godfather does sound like Pop goes the weasel.

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

I like and agree that the actor playing Pentangelli was great!

I also agree in prefering a different set of actors for the younger versions.

The actor btw who plays Young Clemenza played the limo driver in This is Spinal Tap.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 7 years ago

He also played a character in a spoof of The Godfather called The Freshman, with Matthew Broderick and the man himself, Marlon Brando. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend.

https://moviechat.org/tt0099615/The-Freshman

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

Yeah I've seen that film, I think I've seen him in a few others too.

Very good film, nice recommendation!

[–] vicky_lc2001 (1907) 7 years ago

LOL, OMG, I had never read this before. They had him losing so much weight (100lbs?), only to have him back to 300lbs? That would piss me off too if that happened to me!