To those who say that Joey raped Annette because she was stoned... - Saturday Night Fever (1977) Discussion

[–] soonerpike697 8 years ago

They ran a train on a sobbing woman in the back of an Impala. That's rape Holmes...

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[–] ck1-5 8 years ago

"Holmes"? Boy, you are SO cool...and, when it all started out, she was laughing and cool with it. At some point after that, when she started crying and saying "No", then it was rape.

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[–] The_Ultimate_Hippo 8 years ago

But Annette never told Joey to stop, she only said "no" to Double J so therefore it was only Double J who raped her.

"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine

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[–] rdh-36107 7 years ago

Unfortunately she was sad because Tony didn't respond to her having sex with his friend. She wanted to get a reaction from him. (That's why she was looking at him while she was doing it). After that's she felt embarrassed being "loose". But she was raped. And yet she hung around.

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[–] rascal67 7 years ago

Annette was constantly putting herself out for sex with Tony and wanted to make him jealous. She was consenting with Joey and half way through she suddenly decided that it was something she didn't want, or was playing an act to get Tony to intervene. Who knows, she was female and earlier in the film she was content to go all with way with Tony when he asked her about contraception. She wanted him to get her pregnant.

When Joey was done, he let Double J have a turn. She didn't expect Tony to not intervene. Perhaps he wanted to teach her a lesson, he did comment..."Are you happy now?" Annette was trampish, 2 guys had sex with her, which she didn't expect to go as far as it did and the guys used her for a hole. Double J didn't really care about how she was feeling by then and did comment..."Gees, she's going to cry on me!" They lacked a certain respect for her, but if it was rape, it was very borderline or questionable. She also wasn't a very respectable girl. Like you have mentioned, she also hung around after the incident and you could also say she was hanging around the wrong crowd.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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[–] soonerpike697 8 years ago

You're right Holmes the first guy just took advantage of a girl wasted out of her mind, the second guy raped her...

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Yeah. It surely became rape when she told them to stop.

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[–] frankwilkeson 8 years ago

Afterward, Annette walked around her neighborhood carrying that back seat everywhere she went to protest her rape.

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[–] roreyking 8 years ago

Afterward, Annette walked around her neighborhood carrying that back seat everywhere she went to protest her rape.

LOL!!! Then she enrolled at Columbia.

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[–] roreyking (559) 5 years ago

BRAVO! ROTFL!

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[–] johnejustice 8 years ago

Dude that was a rape.

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[–] The_Ultimate_Hippo 8 years ago

So Joey should have read her mind and known she didn't want to do it?

"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine

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[–] !!!deleted!!! (47421091) 8 years ago

It wasn't a rape in the 70s.

It's a rape today.

10 years from now the scene when Tony tenderly kisses Stefanie during the dance final will be a rape.

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[–] federovsky 7 years ago

Spot on. Life was grittier in the 70s. People put up with more. Now we are a society of victims.

These weren't a bunch of millennial snowflakes who burst into tears at every little thing that happens to them. The film had already made the point a) that having sex in the back of a car was a normal thing in that social group, and b) that a hefty knee in the groin is an effective way of getting out of that situation.

Anyway, everybody is missing the point about what happened. It would only be rape if Annette, in her right mind, considered it rape. My guess is that Annette would not. She would have blamed herself next day for being so stupid as to deliberately get into that situation. The guys would apologise and they would all be at the disco again the following Saturday. And when she found she was pregnant she may even marry one of them - who knows. The implication of that sort of hapless destiny was what the film was setting up - not that Annette would be screaming rape the next day. Anyone who is screaming rape at this scene just doesn't get it.

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[–] winepooh96 7 years ago

This makes a lot of sense. I think back then things were more accepted and I could see a character like Annette taking full responsibility for what happened and not seeing how wrong the guys were. Things were less PC back then, so it would have never held up in court because she was under the influence and I don't think that would be looked kindly on. I agree, I doubt it even entered her mind it was rape. That said, by 2017 standards Double J technically did rape her because she said no and that's all that is necessary, but there are shades of gray because it was 1977. I think Annette started freaking out because the drugs were wearing off and the reality of what she was doing was setting in. I can't say I blame Tony for not stepping in. For one, he himself wasn't a huge pillar of morality and he did try to stop her/them earlier. I think once she had sex with Joey, that was it in Tony's mind and she got what she asked for. I also feel at that point, to him, it didn't matter that she did it with another guy once her virginity was gone. Annette's infatuation with Tony was sad and pathetic because he treated her like crap. I totally believe she was trying to get pregnant by him in the car scene and was surprised she didn't lie and say she was on the pill or some other birth control. To me, she was a more interesting character than that horrible Stephanie.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

That said, by 2017 standards Double J technically did rape her because she said no and that's all that is necessary, but there are shades of gray because it was 1977.

There were no shades of gray in the movie. Annette was raped.

If you examine the movie, you'll see that what happened that night was a repeat of scenes that had happened before, except framed in a different light.

For example, in the earliest scenes of SNF--where the guys are "scoring" in the back seat of the car on drugs, messing around with gangs and scaling the bridge--it's all meant to come across as harmless fun, as in a bunch of kids blowing off steam. This is to reflect Tony's perception of himself and his friends as being nothing more than a couple of kids "having fun."

The second time these scenes happen, they play out with completely negative outcomes. Drug usage and risk taking (on the bridge) leads to one person losing his life. Gang banging results in Tony and his crew messing up the wrong gang. "Scoring" in the back of the car leads to Tony basically forcing himself onto Stephanie, who storms off into a huff and later calls him an attempted rapist. The point of these negative outcomes was so the movie has Tony finally realize that his lifestyle (gang banging, drugs, risk taking) is one of debauchery and evil, not fun, which is why he decides to quit his "crew" and start a new life in Manhattan.

If SNF was so clear cut about showing the drug taking leading to one person's death, the gang banging leading to diaster and Tony's attempt at "scoring" with Stephanie as attempted rape, why would what happened to Annette be portrayed as being in shades of grey? The other outcomes weren't.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

And yes Annette was raped but not by Joey, Double J is the only one who raped her. Joey didn't do anything wrong, watch the scene again Annette never told him to stop. With Joey it was just two consenting adults.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I wasn't arguing that she was raped by Joey, just disagreeing with people about there being a "gray area" about what happened. There wasn't a gray area about anything. Annette was under the influence when she had sex with Joey--and therefore taken advantage of--but she was raped by the second guy.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Yes there is no grey area, every thrust after she said "I don't want to do this" was rape.

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[–] BooBooCat (652) 4 years ago

I also feel at that point, to him, it didn't matter that she did it with another guy once her virginity was gone.

Hmmmm... nothing in the movie suggests that she was a virgin. Actually, she really didn't seem like a virgin to me.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Correct I never got the impression she was a virgin when we first met her.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

These weren't a bunch of millennial snowflakes who burst into tears at every little thing that happens to them.

Spoken like a sociopath.

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[–] buchookie (36) 4 years ago

Yep. A lot of men commenting here who must have done similar in the past to some poor woman too incapacitated to consent. They just can't admit to themselves that they're actually rapists.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 2 years ago

Annette was conscious and fully aware of her decisions. Also Joey was stoned as well so is he not responsible for his actions like Annette apparently isn’t?

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[–] buchookie (36) 4 years ago

Wow! You actually think it's okay that in the past rape victims blamed themselves for what happened to them. Instead of blaming the revolting men who violated them when they should have been protecting them if they were incapacitated, or 'stupid' (your word) enough to find themselves in a vulnerable situation. I really hope you don't have any daughters, or granddaughters since you sound old.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Annette wasn't raped by Joey, watch the scene again she came onto him, she willingly got into the backseat with him and never told him to stop. If she told him to stop and he didn't then it would be rape. It didn't become a rape until Joey and Double J switched places. Joey didn't roofie her or have sex with her when she was unconscious, Annette knew what she was doing.

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[–] buchookie (36) 4 years ago

You clearly don't understand consent. Go educate yourself. Start by googling consent.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

I understand consent completely, Annette gave Joey consent. She had the right the entire time to tell him to stop and if she did and he didn't stop then it would have been a rape, she didn't. She's not under 18, she wasn't roofied, and she initiated it. She wasn't raped by Joey.

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[–] BooBooCat (652) 4 years ago

Dude... she clearly initiated the whole thing. Now yes, I agree, she didn't give consent to the second guy... but she most definitely gave it to the first. I know what consent is and she most definitely gave it at one point.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Exactly, Joey didn’t rape her, she came onto him and she knew what she was doing. If she told Joey to stop and he didn’t then it’d be rape but she didn’t. It didn’t become a rape until Bobby stopped the car.

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[–] BooBooCat (652) 4 years ago

Totally. Unfortunately, white knights will always be there to blindly defend women no matter what. For them, women are ALWAYS the victims. This is bullshit and I have female friends who totally agree with me on that.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Yes and also wasn’t there a scene where Joey tried to get her to stop taking drugs and didn’t Tony try to tell her not to put out for the group and she didn’t listen? People need to start taking responsibility for their actions and quit blaming others

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[–] BooBooCat (652) 4 years ago

Yes, there was. This is why I don't get where does buchookie's radical attitude comes from. I respect women... but when a woman is to blame, she is to blame and she should be held responsible for her actions/decisions. After all, this is how innocent men get to jail for false accusations.

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[–] MovieChatUser497 (18943) 4 years ago

Exactly, respecting women doesn't mean that you don't hold them accountable for their own actions. They are still liable for what they do just as much as men are. There have been instances where women have lied that their ex husbands molested their children just to get back at them which is a pretty sick thing to do (although not as sick as actually molesting a child).

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[–] detataandrea 7 years ago

I was under the impression that Annette was into at first but when reality hit her and she knew this was really happening, she quickly changed her mind and said no. Plus I believe she was crying because I'm assuming she was a virgin (?) and sex for the first time when you are a virgin hurts...!!!

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[–] TheUltimateHippo (2250) 6 years ago

Joey came right when Annette was coming off of her drugs, up until that point she was totally into it and she NEVER told Joey to stop, watch the scene again. It didn't become rape until Double J and Joey traded places.

Double J did rape Annette, Joey didn't.

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[–] BooBooCat (652) 4 years ago

Plus I believe she was crying because I'm assuming she was a virgin (?) and sex for the first time when you are a virgin hurts...!!!

Honestly, why people assume that?? Oo She really didn't seem like a virgin to me. As someone who tried to approach a few virgins (only one success), they don't exactly throw themselves on you like she was doing.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

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