MovieChat Forums > Sorcerer (1977) Discussion > Is it Possible . . .

Is it Possible . . .

posted 14 years ago by Deluge69-663-991830
13 replies | jump to latest

I might be completely wrong about this, so please bare with me.

Is it possible that this film is supernatural?

O.K., before you get out the guns, just consider this:

We all agree these men are "in hell", allegorically.

Could they be in hell (or Purgatory) literally?

Was Scheider killed in the getaway car crash? He opens his eyes, and some strange man (where did he suddenly come from?) says, "They're gone."

Scheider then stumbles away from the wreckage as the police arrive. Odd, they don't see him getting away. N.Y. police are very sharp, and would notice this, but they don't. A bit like the condemned man swimming away in OCCURENCE AT OWL CREEK BRIDGE, a fantasy escape.

Later, after his comrades are all dead, he is driving alone. The landscape almost looks alien, like some other nether world. He then flashes back to the accident. "Where am I going?" "What do you mean you don't know?" He also hears the sounds of the dead men when the truck finally conks out, as if they know and are sadistically mocking his tormented plight.

Again, we can mostly agree that this is allegorical, but could it possibly be for real?

There are other subtle clues throughout, inferring that they could be dead, and in hell or Purgatory.

Friedkin always denied any supernatural themes to SORCERER, but I've always had that slight, nagging doubt. Is he being something of a teasing devil? Was it perhaps an unconscience thing? Was it the editors' idea or presumption? Perhaps he did such a brilliant job that he even fooled himself. Artists are sometimes known to do that.

The sounds of wailing demons as they try getting across the bridge? The truck that looks like the Devil?

At the very end, before he "dances with death", that extended close-up of his face. Does he finally realize he is dead, and will never get out of that place?

A bit like Lee Marvin in POINT BLANK; is he dead, and a haunting ghost?

It's all 'circumstantual evidence', and I might be wrong, but I, along with many friends who saw this film, have brought up this possibility. Maybe another one of those ever-so-subtle ambiguities? We may never really know.

I could go on, but I'm wondering if anyone out there had a similar reaction.

Still one hell of a great film, and quite haunting and disturbing.

Would love to see a new DVD release with a commentary from Friedkin. This film definitely cries out for one.

SORCERER is still one of my all-time favorites.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Deluge69-663-991830 14 years ago

I know what you're saying, but it still always left me with that 'strange feeling'.

I could just be overprojecting, but it always left me wondering, Great intense films tend to do that.

His 'wizard of fate' is not unsound, but it does seem a bit of an easy rationale. It's nothing that profound to know how fate can suddenly intervene and throw one's life way off-course, and perhaps suddenly eliminate it; eg. traffic accidents, natural disasters, victim of violent crime, suddenly being afflicted with a fatal disease, even a serious domestic mishap; etc.

The 'wizard of fate' is a bit of 'preaching to the choir'. Most of us are already well aware of that.

I guess it intrigues me to wonder.

[–] Doom 14 years ago

I think you're nuts.

But it's actually an interesting idea - and a cool read (seriously).

------

Wait a minute... who am I here?

[–] Deluge69-663-991830 14 years ago

I might be wrong, but I always got that 'weird sense' that it could be.

It's that kind of film that does leave a few ambiguous interpretations.

Some felt that POINT BLANK might have had a supernatural theme of Lee (Walker) Marvin being dead.

There was some debate about THE SWIMMER; the slight chance that Burt Lancaster might have been a ghost, haunted by past turmoils.

In CARNIVAL OF SOULS, the supernatural theme is more obvious.

SIXTH SENSE indulged the same 'Whoops I'm dead' theme.

Anyways, the fact that it sparked those thoughts is further proof of the film's haunting effectiveness. Many of Friedkin's films have a way of lingering on long afterwards. It takes a top director that can pull that off.

[–] cult_classics 14 years ago

I'm glad i'm not the only one to notice all this, but yes, i think the film is both supernatural and HIGHLY allegorical. I mean look at the characters; a terrorist, a banker, a hitman, a gangland getaway driver, a potential Nazi war criminal...seems like i am forgetting someone? Anyway i think you pretty much nailed the ambiguity of the film. It does seem too that they could be in purgatory seeing as how they all contribute to the cause here and seem to be redeeming characters in the end. As for whether or not the cause of aiding in the exploitation of the environment's oil reserves is necessarily a good thing, that is debatable.

What is the chances though that all these questionable men would end up at the very same place at the very same time? I've always thought it was more than just them "hiding out".

Question is, what awaits Scanlon in the end when presumably his demons/mistakes catch up with him?

"You wouldn't know crazy if Charles Manson was eating Fruit Loops on your front porch."

[–] alanake 13 years ago

This is a cool, cool reading and I am kicking myself for not having noticed it in the movie myself.

Usually I am a sucker for the "are-they-really-dead?" kind of thing ... like Jacob's Ladder ... I even wonder whether Apolcalypse Now is set competely within the dying thoughts of Martin Sheen on a bed in a hotel in saigon. Oh well.

[–] Deluge69-663-991830 11 years ago

BUMP

[–] Wuchakk 11 years ago

This is an excellent alternative interpretation because there's just enough evidence to support it, including the seemingly inappropriate title. Like you say, it may have been an unconscious thing on Friedkin's part.

[–] andykidd99 11 years ago

I would love if this was indeed the case. Would add a whole other dimension to an already fantastic film.

[–] Deluge69-663-991830 11 years ago

I rewatched it the other day with a few friends. They all seem to agree that he was (possibly) killed in the getaway crash. He opens his eyes and sees a strange man looking under the car at him. In an ominous tone he says "They're Gone".

Where did he suddenly come from, and how was he so sure that the others were dead? We then see that his partners were seriously wounded, with the blood money all over them. A moment later, the mysterious man is gone.

Was he the figure of Death?

And the almost 'fantasy escape' from the scene of the crime, bringing OCCURENCE AT OWL CREEK BRIDGE to mind. Odd that tough, street smart NY police don't notice this.

Later, when Scanlon is alone, he is driving in what appears to be some alien world. Nether World? Then he flashes back to the car crash. Is he dead? In Hell? Purgatory?

It's very subtle, maybe unintended, but it always left me with further disturbed feelings, leaving me to wonder.

SORCERER can also mean "Getting to the Source"?

The opening credits resemble the credits for something supernatural.

It's a troubling "maybe", far more effective than if we knew for sure, one way or another.
The trucks resembling that demonic stone face. The sounds of wailing demons as they struggle to cross the bridge. Bridge of Sighs? And that eerie Tangerene Dream score, whichs seems more suited for a supernatural/horror movie.

It could go either way.

Was it the Editors doing? Something unconscious? Perhaps we never are meant to fully know, but are left to trip on the possibility.

I'd love to propose this to Friedkin to see his response.

Something is definitely not quite right.

[–] balthazar_bee 10 years ago

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Personally, I don't think Scanlon dies in the crash, but his life is effectively over in any case.

He probably should have died; it would've been the smart move.

Because he manages to escape, he takes his trek down south, lives in squalor for a while, becomes desperate to escape, undertakes what amounts to a suicide mission, consequently loses his marbles a bit, then suffers betrayal at the hands of what looks to be his only real friend and almost certainly dies at the hands of a hired gun.

In a philosophical way, it seems as though Ridley Scott's The Counselor is channeling this film. The two have a sort of grim, unsentimental pragmatism. They're like existential horror movies. I mean, all we can do is go on living right? Even though it's certain to add to our miseries and end in despair in any case.

In The Counselor, the title character makes one seemingly innocuous choice, is entirely removed from the specific circumstances of the screw-ups that ensue, but suffers enormously (and possibly in perpetuity) as a result. He can't negotiate a way out of it, much as he'd like to.

In Sorcerer, Scanlon has committed to a life of crime, which has rendered him unable to control to circumstances of the events set in motion. He participates in the robbery, has the bad luck to steal from a mob boss's brother (although you've got to admire the moxie of a guy who's willing to raid a church -- talk about hard boiled), has the further bad luck to have a hot head partner who shoots that brother, and finally has the bad luck to have another hot head pull a gun in the car causing him to crash.

Scanlon is forced to react to most of this stuff after it's too late -- but he did agree to participate in the robbery in the first place, so in a sense that's what causes the entire chain of events.

I think I need a cupcake.

[–] Deluge69-663-991830 10 years ago

Very interesting and thorough interpretation.

Scanlon is doomed from the start, then proceeds to sink further. The village seems on the brink of sinking in quicksand; the most hopeless of environments.

Scanlon then meets up with fellow fugitives, all guilty of the most reprehensible crimes, and is then forced into an uneasy bonding with them.

The film had an eerie mood. The Tangerine Dream Score made it seem almost supernatural on occasions.

Perhaps it's all meant to be a disturbing existential allegory. People have been arguing metaphysics from here to eternity, but the answer will always be Unknown.

That sketch of a demon, momentarily seen on one of the trucks, brings Exorcist to mind. Was it a personal 'in joke', or was it inferring something else? Seems we are never really meant to know, but left to trip on it later. Not many films today can achieve that.

Heard there will be an upcoming Special Edition Re-Release soon. Hopefully, Friedkin will do an indepth commentary that might clarify these ambiguities, in addition to interviews.

I'll check that Ridley Scott film.

Thanx for your insightful review, and you earned the cupcake.

[–] 10 years ago

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