are Indians offended by Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) Discussion

[–] paranjapesameer 8 years ago

Don't see why anyone would get offended by this. It was clearly not intended to be accurate with it's over the top depiction of "Indian" culture.

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[–] Karl Aksel 8 years ago

It was clearly not intended to be accurate with it's over the top depiction of "Indian" culture.

Clearly? To whom? When I first saw the film at, I guess I was about 10, I certainly didn't stop to think that anything in the movie was out of place with respects to Indian culture.

Also, stereotypes do tend to be over the top. Americans tend to associate Brits with bad teeth, even though Brits don't have worse teeth than anyone else. The stereotypes are way over the top, but they do colour people's perception, even if they are "clearly not intended to be accurate".

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[–] paranjapesameer 8 years ago

Clearly? To whom? When I first saw the film at, I guess I was about 10, I certainly didn't stop to think that anything in the movie was out of place with respects to Indian culture.

Indians of course. Since we're the ones being portrayed as a weird monkey-brain eating society.

The stereotypes are way over the top, but they do colour people's perception

Only until those people educate themselves about the truth. Which, I will admit, was much more difficult to do back when this movie came out. But with internet access being so common these days, it's just a Google search away.

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[–] Karl Aksel 8 years ago

Indians of course. Since we're the ones being portrayed as a weird monkey-brain eating society.

But it isn't an Indian film, shown exclusively to Indians. By your reasoning, no slander is offensive. The thing is, if you tell a lie about person A, person A knows it is a lie. However, persons B, C and D do not know. And that's why the lie is offensive to person A. If person A complains, it is hardly a defense to say, "but you know it isn't true, so what's the problem?"

If some American film was to portray Norwegians (my culture) as backward, gullible, naive or in some other unflattering light, of course I would take offense. "Is this what they think we're like?" It would be something else entirely, however, if a Norwegian film was to take the same liberties, because that would be a film by Norwegians, for Norwegians.

Only until those people educate themselves about the truth. Which, I will admit, was much more difficult to do back when this movie came out. But with internet access being so common these days, it's just a Google search away.

This assumes that people will automatically do so. I will grant you that misinformation is a lot less damaging these days thanks to Google, however.

In my student days I had a friend from India who said he enjoyed Temple for all its ridiculousness and did not take offense. At the same time he said that many Indians do find it offensive, and disappointed that Amrish Puri would deign to participate in it. Different people have different thresholds. And like I said, I do not take offense from the movie myself, but I can see how Indians might.

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[–] kmags84 8 years ago

Austin Powers portrayed the British as people with Bad Teeth. A Canadian Comedian uses a stereotype and it speaks for America. It's actually a common sense issue. I watch Global Cinema and I think other than the Euro and Japanese Films of Post WWII(Which was more a statement on the Marxists and Fascism that destroyed much of the World at the time) almost all of the Globe depicts Americans in a negative manner. It's just outside perspective. It's not meant to rip apart the US

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Yes, but it is NOT the same. Remember, British people are still White! Who cares if Whites insult other Whites?

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] onyrleft 8 years ago

To be offended, I would have to feel that there's malice involved. I don't see malice here, just incompetence. Spielberg simply doesn't know enough or care enough, and I reciprocate in kind.

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

Spielberg simply doesn't know enough

Spielberg doesn't have "to know" about Indian culture to make the movie, because it is not a documentary or a filmed investigation.
It's a fictional story about fictional characters doing fictional things.

So we should consider Robert Zemekis (Back to the future director) "incompetent" because travelling to time is not accurate, or because he doesn't know enough about science ?

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

There is absolutely no reason to be offended. This is a work of fiction, and not a documentary about India.
The characters depicted in the movie are a deranged group of criminals, and not "Indian people".

American-Italian people are not offended by The Godfather.
German people are not offended by Schindler's List.
Russian people are not offended by the James Bond films.
So I don't see how Indian people would be offended by a story about a thugee cult.

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[–] Karl Aksel 8 years ago

There is absolutely no reason to be offended. This is a work of fiction, and not a documentary about India.

People get their information from fiction as well, whether they like to admit it or not.

The characters depicted in the movie are a deranged group of criminals, and not "Indian people".

There were no deranged people in the movie. There were good Hindus (the villagers) and evil Hindus (the Thuggees). No one was depicted as "deranged".

American-Italian people are not offended by The Godfather.
German people are not offended by Schindler's List.
Russian people are not offended by the James Bond films.
So I don't see how Indian people would be offended by a story about a thugee cult.

Like I pointed out in the other thread, these aren't very good comparisons. In none of the films you list here did anyone act outside the realm of cultural expectations. Like I said, if the nazis in the Indy-movies had been portrayed as, say, salivating cannibals who liked to impale children for fun, then one could - and certainly would - be outraged at the portrayal of German soldiers.

In Temple, the Thuggee are nothing like the historical Thuggee, nor is Kali anything like Kali in Hinduism. At no point does the film try to tell us that this is not how Kali is traditionally worshipped, nor does it try to tell us that the Thuggees are not "real" Hindus (even though this does get some exposition in the script - but was ditched for the shooting). On the contrary, Indy immediately identifies the monstrous statue as that of Kali, and the ceremony as a Thuggee ceremony, and further making the point that this was what the Thuggee did a century back:

Willy: "Have you ever seen anything like this before?"
Indy: "Nobody's seen this in a hundred years."

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

People get their information from fiction as well

Hummm.no.
People get informations in books or documentaries.
Not from Star Wars or Transformers (or the Temple of Doom).

There were no deranged people in the movie. There were good Hindus (the villagers) and evil Hindus (the Thuggees).

Yep...and so...the Hindus doing human sacrifices, eating monkey brains or enslaving children are the "evil Hindus".
Seems like we're OK.

And to me, it takes deranged people to do human sacrifices, eat monkey brains or enslaving children. But whatever floats your boat...

In Temple, the Thuggee are nothing like the historical Thuggee, nor is Kali anything like Kali in Hinduism.

In The texas chainsaw massacre, the butcher family (including Leatherface) is nothing like most butchers.
Butchers are not gonna be offended, because it's a work of fiction.

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[–] Karl Aksel 8 years ago

Hummm.no.
People get informations in books or documentaries.
Not from Star Wars or Transformers (or the Temple of Doom).

I did not say they seek information from fiction - I said they get information from, amongst other things, fiction. Why do you think there is so much misinformation about samurai, ninja, knights, pirates etc.? Because people are suggestible, and absorb information regardless of source.

Yep...and so...the Hindus doing human sacrifices, eating monkey brains or enslaving children are the "evil Hindus".
Seems like we're OK.

So you think it was an accurate representation of Hinduism?

And to me, it takes deranged people to do human sacrifices, eat monkey brains or enslaving children. But whatever floats your boat...

Then you are operating with your very own definition of "deranged". Most of mankind throughout the ages were "deranged" by that standard. "Deranged" does not mean "evil" or "someone different from me", but denotes insanity. Eating brains - whether from a monkey or otherwise - is not a sign of insanity. On the contrary, it is quite nutritious, though some may find it repugnant. Human sacrifice, likewise, is not a sign of insanity, but is an extreme consequence of religious pursuit. You may say it is "crazy", but that is a colloquialism: no actual psychosis is involved. And enslaving children - perfectly commonplace throughout history. Nothing remotely "deranged" about it at all. Though you may certainly argue that it's immoral. It is only relatively recently that child slavery (or slavery in general) has been poopooed.

In The texas chainsaw massacre, the butcher family (including Leatherface) is nothing like most butchers.
Butchers are not gonna be offended, because it's a work of fiction.

They weren't presented to us as normal butchers. Actually, this is an excellent example of a movie showing actually deranged characters. In Temple, however, the Thuggees are presented to us as actual Hindus. Also, the movie gives the distinct impression that, "this is Kali, and this is how she is worshipped". It is a gross misrepresentation no matter how you cut it. The butcher family in Chainsaw Massacre, however, cannot be said to be a misrepresentation of crazy people.

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

I said they get information from, amongst other things, fiction.

I still disagree.
People don't get informations from star wars or Transformers, or Lord of the Ring.
And even if they would, it wouldn't be filmakers fault. It is all fiction, and the ones actually believing cars can transform, Gollum is real or Indian eat monkey brains are just wrong.

So you think it was an accurate representation of Hinduism?

Hummmm....no. I precisely said that it is a fictional story of fictional characters doing fictional crimes.

Then you are operating with your very own definition of "deranged".

Of course I am.
Just as when I say that killing people in bombing attack is wrong, I use my "own definition of wrong", and not the terrorists one.
I confirm.

the Thuggees are presented to us as actual Hindus

Hummm....no.
They are presented as cruel killers drinking blood, and causing trouble to actual Hindus, who want to live in peace with their lost children.

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[–] Educator07 8 years ago

I still disagree.
People don't get informations from star wars or Transformers, or Lord of the Ring.
And even if they would, it wouldn't be filmakers fault. It is all fiction, and the ones actually believing cars can transform, Gollum is real or Indian eat monkey brains are just wrong.

You may disagree, but you are incorrect. People do get information from the media, it's not always correct though. People often believe what they see on tv or movies as accurate depiction of cultures of people, especially if those stereotypes are reinforced by friends and family members.

Most police never fire their weapon, you'd never know it from watching tv.

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

People do get information from the media

From "the medias" doesn't mean they believe that Tatooine is a real planet or that Leonardo Dicaprio was acutually on board of the Titanic.
And again, even if they do, it's not the filmakers fault.

We're not going to complain about "scientific inaccuracy" because Tatooine has 2 suns.
We're not going to complain about "historic inaccuracy" because no Jack Dawson was on the Titanic.

So there's no reason to complain about any racism when fictional people are depicting doing fictional things in India.

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[–] Educator07 8 years ago

From "the medias" doesn't mean they believe that Tatooine is a real planet or that Leonardo Dicaprio was acutually on board of the Titanic.
And again, even if they do, it's not the filmmakers fault.

Some people do believe people they see on tv are real. Many actors have been bashed in person because of something their character did.

Regardless, liberties are taken with story telling. People would complain if the Titanic crew were all black or the captain was a woman because that would be historically inaccurate.

White culture and the people who make it up rarely concern themselves about how they are depicted on screen because there are such varied portrayals. For every Adam Sandler there's a Leonardo DiCaprio and for every Kevin James there is a Ryan Gosling, Varied depictions of a culture the majority knows about anyway.

Not true for minorities. We have to fight for realistic and true depictions of who we are. If not, the white majority will tell lies about us and others will believe it.

So there's no reason to complain about any racism when fictional people are depicting doing fictional things in India.

How surprising. Minorities being told they shouldn't complain about how they are depicted. AKA It doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.

Unfortunately for you, that's not how it works.

Both Iris Wests are women of color. In your face canon purists!

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

Some people do believe people they see on tv are real. Many actors have been bashed in person because of something their character did.

...Yep. And it's nobody's fault if some people are stupide or naive.

How surprising. Minorities being told they shouldn't complain about how they are depicted. AKA It doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.

That's exactly the point : "Minorities" don't complain about racism in Temple of Doom. It's only a few geeks from the internet, regardless of their color, that complain.

"Minorities" have other problems than a scene in Indiana Jones or a sequence in Lord of the rings. They have other causes that are worth fightinbg for along with them.
I'd rather do that.

But keep on focusing on "racism in temple of doom", if that's where your fight is.

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[–] Educator07 8 years ago

...Yep. And it's nobody's fault if some people are stupide or naive.

Surprise, surprise, you don't care. Unfortunately, the people misrepresented and stereotyped in these films don't have that option. We have to deal with the ignorance of whites created by whites.

That's exactly the point : "Minorities" don't complain about racism in Temple of Doom. It's only a few geeks from the internet, regardless of their color, that complain.

At the film's release in 1984, the internet was in it's infancy, there really wasn't a way for the average citizen to complain and have their displeasure known. However, minorities have complained about their depiction onscreen since Birth of a Nation in 1915.

You remind me of the people that think Blacks didn't have a problem with the Confederate Battle Flag until Dylan Roof murdered those people last year. Tone death to any group's travails, but your own.

Both Iris Wests are women of color. In your face canon purists!

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[–] thylacine80 8 years ago

We have to deal with the ignorance of whites created by whites.

So, filmakers should forbid themselves some plot ideas just because "we have to deal with the ignorance of people" ??

Hummm....no.

Blacks didn't have a problem with the Confederate Battle Flag until Dylan Roof murdered those people last year.

You're proving my point...
The confederate battle flag is indeed a real subject of controversy and minorities care about that kind of matter.
...Not about fictional scenes in an Indiana Jones movie.

Comparing the confederate battle flag with Indiana Jones and the temple of doom is what I needed to start my day with a good laugh.
Thank you.

But you progressed : now you found a cause that is worth fighting for along with minorities. Find a few others and statrt the fight along with us !!!

But don't fake your involvment with fictional scenes from entertainment blockbusters...;-)

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[–] qdude440 8 years ago

Why do you hate white people?

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[–] ghostly_host 8 years ago

My guess would be because it is politically correct and socially acceptable to hate white people.

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[–] Trax-3 8 years ago

How surprising. Minorities being told they shouldn't complain about how they are depicted. AKA It doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.

Sorry to break your bubble but you have no right not to be offended.
If you don't like something go cry in the corner or grow some balls and be a man.

You can't be offended unless you let yourself be offended.

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[–] Educator07 8 years ago

Sorry to break your bubble but you have no right not to be offended.
If you don't like something go cry in the corner or grow some balls and be a man.

Or I can protest, boycott, and any other legal recourse to get things done my way. Something white people have done since they could spell litigation.

It's a different era, movies day films are free to misrepresent minority cultures, but they should not be shocked when these films go belly up. As they should.

"Now, who's the villain, Flash? Now, who's the villain?" Eobard Thawne.

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[–] ghostly_host 8 years ago

lol "minority" Do you know how many people are in India alone compared to the USA (and not all Americans are white)? There's 1.25 billion people in India. There are far more non-white people in the world than there are whites. This is why people like Donald Trump are becoming popular in places where "political correctness" is being used as an excuse to blame whites (and/or Jews) for everything.

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[–] mcremp (52) 6 years ago

"I can protest, boycott, and any other legal recourse to get things done my way."

But you certainly does not accept other people do the same. Because "your way" is the only correct one, and other´s people "way" is obviously wrong. So you will protest and boycott until the world recognizes your wisdom.

Or you can crawl back to your safe place and pretend the world is exactly how you want it to be.

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Of course it is the filmmaker's fault! They are the ones setting up something, whether it be taken seriously or not, and harming the perception of those people. Up until you get shot for being white or whatever you are, you will come to know. Of course, since you live in the U.S. and the only people that would hate you are Middle Eastern people, black people (depending where you are in the U.S.), and Hispanics (also, wherever you are); you will come to know.

It seems like you are just writing BS on the other side of the computer without any knowledge of what movies like these cause. Why should you give a crap until you are bullied for being different? Hey, maybe you are secretly prejudiced, closet prejudiced. You do know that not saying something against prejudice is being prejudiced right? You are one of those "I am ignorant, but do not put words in my mouth that would give me a way that I might be."

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

so what you're saying is all movies have to change so they don't suggest anything bad to ignorant people?

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Well, Hindus did sacrifice animals, not sure about humans. Maybe.

Child labor was prevalent in Indian culture, not under religion.

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Prejudiced Caucasians do. Go down South and see that most of what you hear is what you are saying in terms of being educated. They are now associating Indians with Middle Eastern people! Do you know how many Hindu and Sikh temple have been burned (well 1 Sikh temple and 1 Hindu Temple in the U.S.). Sikhism and Hinduism are both Indian beliefs fyi.

The old Hindu religion did make sacrifices, not sure if they were human, however, animals. Additionally, child labor was prevalent and is still prevalent in rural areas.

Most Indians are vegetarian. For non vegetarian Indians, the diet consists of fish, chicken, lamb, not sure about pig (some eat, Muslim Indians do not).

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Except the thuggies WERE NEVER HINDU! They were Muslim, USING a Hindu goddess, as their Muslim god.

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] AdmiralTugBenson 8 years ago

I wouldn't blame Indians for being offended by stereotypes and cultural inaccuracies in Western films, just like I wouldn't blame Westerners for being offended by all the stereotypes and cultural inaccuracies in Bollywood films. It would be nice if everybody just lightened up but it is what it is. Everybody likes to dish it out but get upset over the return game. It's not even and East/West thing. I spend a lot of time in Canada and it seems like a majority of their comedy programming is aimed at bashing America, but they get pissed if anybody takes a shot back. Conan took Triumph The Insult Comic Dog up there and made a few jokes at Canada's expense (like he does with everybody, it's in his name) and they were up in arms and even their politicians were having a fit. Over a dog puppet. And of course we're touchy and PC down here too. Whether it be foreign media or our own.

"Dan Marino should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie son?"

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[–] adithyanarayans 8 years ago

Well , am I offended by fiction , nope.
Am I offended by people taking fiction seriously , yep.

All it takes is one bad day to reduce sanest man alive to lunacy

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[–] adithyanarayans 8 years ago

And also them doing zero research before writing a story offends me.

All it takes is one bad day to reduce sanest man alive to lunacy

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[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

Really, Indians would not be. The only thing I hear about Indians is association with Apu in The Simpson. Somehow, it is HILARIOUS when Indians are quickie mart owners. Yet, if it is a white dud or a black dude who owns a convenience store; it is no big deal.

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

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[–] Strazdas (2340) 6 years ago

83% of indians live on less than 2 dollars per day. They have bigger problems than to be offended by a 40 year old movie.

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[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

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