"But...but...he served in the military! So it's okay if he wants to injure people rather than defeat them following the rules of the competition!"
Miyagi served in the army fighting for the US too, based on the real-life 442nd Regimental Combat Team, comprised of Asian-Americans who fought for the US in WW2. And won a medal.
And yet Miyagi's not a sociopath who wants to injure people instead of fighting them honestly! Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy.
Miyagi did something much worse - he preyed on teenage boys. he set up a Neverland before Jacko. Heck, Jacko was likely inspired by Miyagi's deviousness since Miyagi was there first. He made Daniel move in with him. he offered him hard liquor (Jacko served Jesus Juice aka wine which isn't as strong as booze that Miyagi was nudging Daniel to drink).
You cannot deny the creep factor in lines such as "My heart empty without you, Daniel-san" (friends and family don't talk like that, only lovers do) and "You are more important than college, more important than anything Mr Miyagi!" (only people in love exclaim that their love interest is more important than family members), moving in together, having no circle of friends, no girlfriends but only each other. Yep, that goes way beyond father-son and just friends.
Wow. Just...wow.
Offering Daniel a sip of liquor, yes, that is something that happened in the movie about make-pretend people.
"Set up a Neverland before Jacko..." - nope, sorry, that isn't something that happened in the movie about make-pretend people. While I'm sure there are plenty of Miyagi-Daniel sex scenes in people's Karate Kid fan fictions out there, I tend to stick to things that actually happened in the movie...I dunno, I'm weird like that. I just spoke to the screenwriters on the phone, and your theories do not equal Karate Kid canon.
Don't get me wrong. Raping boys is probably worse than injuring someone because you know your sociopathic student will lose to them. But we're talking about the first four Karate Kid movies, movies which do not feature our dreams/fan fiction/crayon drawings involving Miyagi man-boy sex. But they did feature a karate instructor named Kreese who ordered an injury over fair competition...that's actually a thing that happened! (Before Miyagi had sex with Daniel while a T-Rex fought a ninja in the background and Pee Wee Herman cried...aaahhh, there we go again with our scenes that we're inventing that have no bearing on what actually happened on the big movie screen thingie where people play make-believe)...
There are movies with subtext. These are not them. They're pretty straightforward stories, stories that feature pathetic human beings, whose names rhyme with Pleese and Gilver, who can't accept losing in competition, so they resort to behaving like children. And then they still lose.
These are also straight forward stories that feature pathetic human beings who leave their sons in care of seedy men (Daniel's mother), who cannot form any relationship with people their age (Miyagi who lives and socializes exclusively with a teenager), who continuously alienate friends and girlfriends (Daniel), who waste college money on business with no customers (Daniel),who do binge eat carbs (Daniel), who give teenagers booze and let them drive w/o drivers since they also drive w/o driver's (Miyagi), who convert Roman Catholics into Buddhists without explaining to Catholics that they are in a process of unapproved conversion (Miyagi).
The thing is, Miyagi and Daniel are not positive role models at all, but because movies pretend that they are, they are far more dangerous than characters like Kreese and Silver where movies all but put a red capital letter signs screaming "They are bad! Do not try at home, kids!" OTOH, Miyagi's philosophy is ridiculous and wrong yet presented as holy truth. For example:
"win lose no matta" This bull is dangerous because it teaches kids that they shouldn't have any ambition. That led directly to Daniel squandering his college money on "fulfilling Miyagi's dream" to open a fake bonsai tree shop even though there were no customers for that product. So money was wasted because the goal wasn't to win (as in earn profit) but only please elderly boyfriend for the sake of pleasing. Cause win (profit), lose (loss) no matta. he was happy...thanks to wasted college money he didn't work for!
"no bad student, only bad teacher" This bull refuses to acknowledge that students are individuals and not Borg so of course that their personality and different level of intelligence play a part in learning. It teaches kids that they should just dump all responsibility for their stupid actions on adults. Hey, I'm clean cause no bad student, only bad teacher, nevermind teacher had no clue WTF I was doing after hours. I'm clean. This leads to youth that makes bad decisions cause they can always blame adults, right?
Not to mention that in these 3 movies Daniel totally depended on Miyagi. he never became an independent person who can take care of himself without help. In fact, he couldn't do sh!t without Miyagi. he couldn't fight without his saving his ass at the last moment or nodding in approval before Daniel was to apply this or that karate move. he couldn't live by himself. he didn't go to college because he couldn't imagine living on his own so he came up with a ploy to use money for partnership with his live-in boyfriend. That's beyond negative. yet movies treat this utter loserdom as something positive. Look, they have each other, Daniel doesn't need higher education, becoming independent, friends his age, girlfriends, mother, etc. Disgusting.
I tell you what man (or ma'am), my football team won today so I'm in a pretty good mood. If you honestly think the screenwriters intention in the first film is to make you say to your kid that the blond psychopath boy and his angry adult teacher with no sense of shame or perspective on what really is important in life (hint, it's not winning at all costs) are the true role models, then go ahead good sir, let your kid believe that. Your kid might turn into the type that will break his girlfriend's radio like an angry infant instead of, you know, moving on with life like a well-adjusted human being would, but hey, who are we to judge, right? Restraining orders are for losers.
Also, I don't really count what happens in the sequels, as I think they're awful films in general, and I bet you even the screenwriters who simply wrote them to get paid might agree with me after all of these years. Is that fair? I don't know, I'm an adult and I get to do that. It's all fake! Just like there are only three real Star Wars films. Come to think of it, that Palpatine guy has the right attitude. Life = winning, and do whatever it takes to do that. Murder, schmurder! Unlike that Luke loser, who's all about "love" and "honor" and "friendship". Ugh, what a fairy. Kreese ought to show him a thing or two. Kreese would break Leia's legs after she held them up for a second, and he would be RIGHT.
Again, you dismiss how crappy role models Daniel and Miyagi were. Miyagi is clearly a sociopath since he couldn't strike friendship with adults and had a drinking problem. he also showed total disregard for sensible law (such as that minors shouldn't be given alcohol, that minors w/o driver's license shouldn't be allowed to drive and that adults w/o license shouldn't drive either). Breaking a radio is breaking a radio. Anger channeled at inanimate object, not a person. OTOH, minor driving w/o license = possible car crash. Adult driving w/o license = possible car crash.Minor given booze = possible addiction. Those are much bigger transgressions than breaking rich girl's radio which she could replace.
Daniel and especially Miyagi were awful. Inability to socialize with people his age but holding a teenager in mental grip until teenager became totally dependent on him was not normal. On top of being creepy as hell. Which is why your Luke analogy doesn't work. Luke didn't depend on Obi Wan, he went on his own after losing his mentor. Daniel needed Miyagi to hold his d!ck while taking a piss, he couldn't do anything by himself. That's 100% wrong.
Also, there's absolutely no hint in KK that CK would beat up girls. Johnny trashed the radio, not Ali. In fact, it was Daniel who gave her verbal trashing for no reason but that he was insecure moron. So Johnny neither trashed her verbally nor physically. Also, when he fought with Daniel, his buddies were holding Ali so she didn't find herself between fighters - very bad place to be. That's protection. Finally, CK mottos specified that "a MAN confronts you HE is the enemy", words MAN and HE don't leave any doubt about gender (male) and age (adult). No ambiguity, it's 100% outlined who enemy is. Not women, not kids. Adult males. There.
The sequels, especially 3, are entertaining for how bad they are. Silver is the only thing that keeps 3 watchable.
LaRusso finds out how difficult Ali can be in the end. She was acting like a child in regards to Johnny.
Silver is defo MVP of KK3.
share"Miyagi is clearly a sociopath since he couldn't strike friendship with adults and had a drinking problem."
Watch the scene again in KK when Miyagi and Daniel visit the Cobra Kai school and set up the tournament challenge. If you think Miyagi is the ahole in that scene, then I truly don't know what to tell you.
I love the fixation on a sip of alcohol (gasp!) and letting a 15 year-old drive, but 5 dudes beating one dude to a pulp, even when he couldn't stand? Where's the outrage?
"Pouring water on dude" (does not equal sign) "5 dudes beating one dude even when he can't stand, 30 seconds from coma had Miyagi not arrived".
@zerosumgame
"The sequels, especially 3, are entertaining for how bad they are."
Zerosum, I'll agree with you on that!
But Miyagi is an a$$hole in that scene. he crashed the class. Everyone's agitated when you interrupt their work. He could have waited for class to be over and talk to Kreese in private (guaranteed better mood then when you interrupt him) or in front of everyone after they are done with the training.
Also, considering that he's supposed to be wise and sh!t, if I were a wise Asian and saw that instructor was a Vietnam Vet (there's a photo!), I'd conclude that either
a) I'm not the best person to resolve this, just in case poor man has some unresolved trauma from that war, and will send more neutral, definitely more humanizing negotiator such as Daniel's mom (hey, instructor had a mom too, everyone is nice to moms!)
b) I should turn around, leave, pick up my Medal of Honor, come back to the dojo after classes, take the man for a bear and talk this out war hero to war hero, give the man recognition for his bravery that he didn't get when he came back to USA (they spit on and threw sh!t at Nam vets).
That said, douche Miyagi didn't do either because he's a passive-aggressive pr!ck who wanted to fight via a proxy. So instead of actually getting CK to stop acknowledging Daniel's existence right now, he devised to lure them into tourney where he could watch American kids getting beaten up by his proxy Daniel. In short, for all "no like fight" he wanted fight but like a passive-aggressive b!tch that he is, he didn't want anyone to see that he wanted it.
Textbook scociopath.
I don´t understand why people defend Kreese. He´s almost a cardboard villain. I would have felt more sympathy for him if he had shown his students he wanted them to fight loyally.
shareGiven that you didn't bother responding to the 5 on 1 fight, I'll assume you'll concede that point, because no human being could seriously defend the idea of a dude responding to another dude pouring water on him by chasing him down with four other friends and beating him to a pulp, even when he couldn't stand. That'd be...you know, sociopathic.
As much as I love the idea of Miyagi & Kreese going out for a beer "war hero to war hero", I don't know if Kreese would be up for that. But Miyagi's the sociopath, right? Not the instructor who orders his student to BREAK THE OTHER KID'S LEG RATHER THAN WIN OR LOSE ON HIS OWN IN A COMPETITION. Nope, the other guy is the sociopath.
To recap: adult man who orders young student to injure rather than engage in competition (that they willingly entered!)...role model. Adult man who encourages his student to compete honorably, win or lose...sociopath.
And @ruijcm...you're right. Kreese's villainy is cardboard in its extremity. But there's always people willing to defend teachers who order students to sweep the leg rather than risk losing. Forget it, ruijcm...it's the IMdB boards.
Given that you didn't bother responding to the 5 on 1 fight
I don't know if Kreese would be up for that.
But Miyagi's the sociopath
BREAK THE OTHER KID'S LEG
To recap: adult man who orders young student to injure rather than engage in competition (that they willingly entered!)...role model. Adult man who encourages his student to compete honorably, win or lose...sociopath.
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Yes he did. I already explained. If you position yourself in front of the class, that's asking for attention while class is in progress. He could have sit on the designated bench for spectators which would be OK. But no. Also, he knew about Kreese more than Kreese knew about him, so it was his responsibility to adjust his approach in order to get the most favorable outcome. But signing up Daniel for tournament was not the most favorable outcome. That would be putting the end to CK/Daniel feud. And that would require that Daniel admits that he contributed to escalation by pulling a prank. So both sides would have to stop provoking each other. Daniel was not innocent. But Miyagi never cared to probe Daniel more. he took Daniel's lies that Daniel was 100% blameless as a gospel and he never thought that his stupid "no bad student only bad teacher" philosophy was wrong. That's not a wise man let alone peaceful one.
So do you defend Kreese ordering Bobby to take Daniel out with an illegal kick to the leg?
Or ordering Johnny to keep hitting the injured leg? You don't have a problem with that?
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OK, scene by scene:
Miyagi: "No such thing bad student, only bad teacher.Teacher say, student do."
This is total bullsh!t. Nobody told Kai how to deal with Daniel. Yet Miyagi decided that they had ZERO responsibility and that their trainer, who was oblivious of what was going on, was 100% responsible. That's dealing in absolutes and you know who else only deals in absolutes? Sith.
So having made up his mind that teacher, who had no idea how his students spent after hours, was 100% to blame for Daniel's situation , Miyagi set off to the dojo. First, he scanned the trophy wall and saw war picture. Now, any wise man would think "Oh, sh!t. This guy's a Vietnam vet. There's a good chance that he may be agitated to see an Asian man. So best course of action would be that I leave and send boy's hot, single mom instead." Or "Fortunately, I'm an American patriot from WW2. So bets course of action would be to bond with this brave soldier over our American pride and warriorship. Since American public gives these poor Nam vets tough time, he'll appreciate that WW2 vet appreciates his service."
Alas, no. Miyagi didn't pick any of these lion-taming tactics. Instead, he took the most annoying approach which was "stop all activity and gimme attention!" positioning himself in front of the class, while class was in progress, hoping that his presence would serve as distraction. Which it did. The rest went like this:
Kreese:"What is the problem, Mr. Lawrence?"
Lawrence is distracted just as Miyagi hoped. He briefs Kreese on the visitors. As you can imagine, briefing was Johnny's version of events, not necessarily how they unfolded.
Kreese: "Class, we have visitors. Fall in behind me."
Since Miyagi was wh0ring for attention so much, ignoring him would be rude.
Kreese: "I hear you jumped some of my students last night."
This is very well worded. He didn't make accusation "You jumped my students!" while "I hear..." means "his is the version of last night events that I got". This serves as a nudge to Miyagi to expand on facts if needed (since Daniel's black eye points out at more than what Johnny's version contained).
Miyagi: "Afraid the facts mixed up."
Bingo. Just like Kreese thought. There's more.
Kreese: "Are you calling Mr Lawrence a liar?"
In translation: "Mr Lawrence, you are so busted." Again, clever way to put a bit of fear in his dishonest student. You can see that Johnny's standing all stiff during this part of Miyagi/Kreese convo.
Miyagi: "No call no one nothing."
Riiiight.
Kreese: "What are you here for, old man?"
yeah, Kreese is now getting enough of this sh!t. Miyagi is obviously here to call him something but backtracked. So spill it out and don't waste time.
Miyagi: "Come ask leave boy alone."
Kreese:" What, the boy can't take care of his own problems?"
Ok, so this is tough one for Kreese. He could throw CK under the bus by going "hey, I don't know what the f^^k is going on, here are Kai who are responsible" or he could have their backs and take responsibility onto himself even though he wasn't responsible. Especially since Miyagi was clearly accusing him ("come ask (that you) leave the boy alone"). He picked an option 2. This is where Johnny's stance starts to relax.
Miyagi: "One-to-one problem yes. Five-to-one problem, too much ask anyone."
Kreese: "Is that what's bothering you, the odds? Well, we can fix that."
he acknowledges that 5-to-1 isn't fair without saying it isn't fair. But he does acknowledge it. Just because his way is rough around the edges it doesn't mean he has no sense of fair play.
Kreese: "Feel like matching, Mr. Lawrence?"
Johnny: "Yes, Sensei!"
Ha,mha, this is a good one. He scares the visitors a bit. They came to his dojo to accuse him of something he was clueless about, old guy beat up his students and is now interrupting his class. They need to cook before he lets them off the hook.
Miyagi: "No more fighting, please"
It's a bluff, you dumbass.
Kreese: "This is a karate dojo, not a knitting class. You don't come into my dojo, drop a challenge and leave, old man. Now get your boy on the mat,or you and I will have a serious problem."
This is a 100% bluff. Miyagi beat up 5 blackbelts like nobody's business. It isn't in Kreese's interest to have him repeat the feat in front of the whole class. So anyone who actually thinks that he wanted the fight is really stupid. he's showing Miyagi that he can't f^^k around with him and his students like that, by using Miyagi's words to his advantage. Miyagi said 5 on 1 was too much, while 1 on 1 was fair, so Kreese was, like, "OK, lets do 1 on 1. You said it!"
Miyagi: "Too much advantage, your dojo."
Kreese: "Name a place."
Again, Kreese agrees right away. Which means that he was never serious about the fight. And dojo indeed would be too much advantage. he isn't void of fair play (hence why his about face in the tournament makes zero sense).
Miyagi: "Tournament."
Kreese:"You've got real nerve, old man. real nerve. But I think we can accommodate you. Can't we, Mr. Lawrence?"
Again, no protest. he agrees readily. And is amused. I don't think that he saw these two as a threat.
Johnny: "Yes, Sensei."
Kreese: "Fall in."
Miyagi: "Ask one more small request."
Kreese: "Make it quick."
Miyagi: "Ask leave boy alone to train."
Kreese: "You're a pushy little bastard, ain't you? But I like that. I like that. Alright. No one touches the prima donna until the tournament. Is that understood?"
Class: "Yes, Sensei!"
Again, he agrees. So what's the big deal with this exchange again? he was fair throughout. He wasn't polite but he acknowledged what fair play is every time the issue was brought up. Also, maybe he liked that Miyagi was pushy, just like he said. Miyagi was protecting his whatever-Daniel-is-to-him so Kreese could relate to that. Like, we are on the opposite sides but I appreciate that you are doing all you can to keep your boy safe. I'd do the same.
Kreese: "But if you don't show.....then it's open season......on him......and you."
Again, what's the problem with this? he has to posture to show them that they can't f^^k around. And he said "if you don't show" meaning showing up at the tourney was enough. Daniel didn't have to win fights or even fight Kai (if he was out after the first round fighting someone from different school). he only had to show up. really no big deal, no big demand. Yeesh Miyagi and Daniel stans, you are so sensitive and get your panties in a twist over nothing really.
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Lmao the guy who writes a fricken book to defend a fictional character accuses someone else of having their panties in a twist? Hilarious.
You take criticisms of Reese personally, which is just pathetic.
YOU thought he was thinking and pass it off as a fact.
I love you didn't acknowledge his actions in the second movie because you know it proves you wrong.
Is it so hard to admit Kreese was in the wrong too?
I've never said Miyagi didn't do anything wrong.
Just that you defending Kreese for everything is ridiculous.
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I definitely agree with everything you said about Miyagi.
shareBeno, you're a frikkein idiot.
shareThis is total bullsh!t. Nobody told Kai how to deal with Daniel. Yet Miyagi decided that they had ZERO responsibility and that their trainer, who was oblivious of what was going on, was 100% responsible. That's dealing in absolutes and you know who else only deals in absolutes? Sith.
Who taught karate aggressively? And who said Karate is for self defense, only?
You can't seriously see the connection between the way Kreese taught them to be and how they were against other people?
First, he scanned the trophy wall and saw war picture. Now, any wise man would think "Oh, sh!t. This guy's a Vietnam vet. There's a good chance that he may be agitated to see an Asian man
If that is true it proves that the man has some real problems. So he might be agitated every time he sees an Asian man? Man...he had more problems than i thought.
Alas, no. Miyagi didn't pick any of these lion-taming tactics. Instead, he took the most annoying approach which was "stop all activity and gimme attention!" positioning himself in front of the class, while class was in progress, hoping that his presence would serve as distraction. Which it did.
You should watch the scene again before you describe it in your advantage.
He stood behind the class the whole time, not in front. He didn't say a word. His presence served as a distraction though, so what? Buhu... or are we playing pussys only when it fits your own image?
Kreese: "But if you don't show.....then it's open season......on him......and you."
Of course the bad guy are threaten other people...so i agree with you on this one, what's the big deal? :)
Why not? freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Some people accept what movie serves to them as a holy truth and ask no questions while others see through propaganda and question it.
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I thought they portrayed Miyagi way too self righteous particularly in KK2 and KK3. It's as though, his way was the only real right way of martial arts.
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Hilarious.....Ive seen this movie probably 20 times and have tried to convince my friends that Mr. Miyagi was a child predator, plus he wanted cheap labor
"You're so cool im gonna call you culo"
And then 30 years ago on this very day Daniel triumphed over the Kai to win the All Valley Karate Competition.
Nobody needs convincing of that, but some DO need reminding.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
"You cannot deny the creep factor in lines such as "My heart empty without you, Daniel-san""
LOL>>>>>Great one!
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I think the anti-gay/pedophilia comments are funny as hell. Only a hypersensitive fairy wouldn't appreciate the satire of it all.
"We may never be able to marry. But with help, at least we can someday pretend to." Harvey Milk
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LOL
What is that thing you're using?.... It's technical.
You can't talk to them. They are either nuts or simply pretending to be, which makes them trolls. There's no way to have an actual conversation with them. Glad to see more-and-more people call them out. They've ruined this board.
For my latest movie reviews and news: http://www.hesaidshesaidreviewsite.com
More and more people means people who signed up with imdb just two days ago and today respectively. Only to comment on KK forums. Hmmmm, fishy don't you think? We have Gollum on the loose:
Poster who signed up 2 days ago: "Myyyy precioussss, Kreesssss defendersssss baaaaaad"
Poster who signed up today: "Myyyy preciousssss,agreeeeed with eeeeeeverything you saaaaaay, you soooo smaaaaaart."
Yep.
Sigh.
The 5-on-1 thing was in reference to you defending Johnny at various points. I'll repeat, in reference to Johnny: no human being could seriously defend the idea of a dude responding to another dude pouring water on him by chasing him down with four other friends and beating him to a pulp, even when he couldn't stand. That'd be...you know, sociopathic.
You keep referencing interrupting a class as sociopathic behavior. Just curious, what else do you find sociopathic? Turning the volume on the TV up too loud? Putting chocolate milk in one's cereal? Inserting the toilet paper roll so that you have to pull the paper from underneath the roll, rather than over the top? (actually, that last one is infuriating).
"You are mixing Karate Kid remake where instructor ordered breaking of the leg, and original KK where instructor ordered "out of commission". The latter doesn't mean leg-breaking."
Well I'll be, you got me there. Yup, that totally excuses it. Why let your best fighter fight Daniel honorably, win or lose, when if you hurt him intentionally you can avoid the fighting in the first place! Cause, that's what grown men do, right? For crying out loud, even the Cobra Kai dudes knew Kreese was wrong, and they're the type of guys who fight another guy 5 on 1! Talk about missing the point.
At least you didn't reference "war hero" again, especially given that Miyagi's medal evens that out. Fighting in Vietnam does not give you an excuse to tell your student class, we're gonna enter this tournament and beat this guy fair and square. Wait a sec, he's made it to the finals? All right, screw what I said. Take him out of commission. Let this be a lesson later in life...when it looks as if you might lose something, squirm your way out of competing, hopefully by injuring the competitor. This is what grown, US Army adults do. The Army's motto is "RUN AWAY!" right?
And you are right about a new IMdB account. I should instead be someone who argues about the Karate Kid movies for months, stretching into years. That wouldn't be sociopathic at all!
Any dude would respond to pouring water on him and his weed by chasing down another dude who did it, especially if that guy has history of provoking the guy he soaked wet. Any dude would. And any good friend would join. Now, if CK just randomly chased after Daniel than you can say they are crazy but they were provoked. Also, Johnny couldn't stop beating his ass because of the heat of the moment. Call it red mist. It wasn't pre-planned and calculated which is what sociopaths do. Also, you seems to be missing very important piece of the puzzle - Daniel never told Miyagi about provoking all the beatings. At no point he went "you know, if I didn't pull that stupid prank, I would have been in one piece". Nope. Lying scum made a case for himself where he was randomly picked on, him so innocent, wouldn't hurt a fly. Loser. or maybe he's into pain, like masochist or something.
You keep referencing interrupting a class as sociopathic behavior.
Yup, that totally excuses it.
Fighting in Vietnam does not give you an excuse
And you are right about a new IMdB account. I should instead be someone who argues about the Karate Kid movies for months, stretching into years. That wouldn't be sociopathic at all!
All right, so what were Daniel and Miyagi supposed to do?
shareRuijcm, it's simple. Johnny and his ilk should assault people over childish pranks, and the police will shut up and LIKE IT. But Miyagi let a 15 year-old take a sip of whiskey? PRISON FOR LIFE. Oh, and anything Kreese has ever done? PTSD. It's not like he's, you know, a jerk or anything.
shareGiving 15 years old booze deserves prison for life.
shareBy the third or fourth time you watch, you realize you really don't like Daniel that much. At least that's how I felt.
Daniel did cause a multiple car wreck running from an incident he provoked, just before that 5-on-1. Daniel is really lucky it wasn't 9-on-1. If you don't like the Kai, then fine. Daniel is hardly a blameless victim.
Johnny's biggest flaw is wanting that manipulative, vindictive, and evil ex-girlfriend of his back.
Johnny's biggest flaw is wanting that manipulative, vindictive, and evil ex-girlfriend of his back.
Daniel did cause a multiple car wreck running from an incident he provoked, just before that 5-on-1. Daniel is really lucky it wasn't 9-on-1. If you don't like the Kai, then fine. Daniel is hardly a blameless victim.
Go f^^k themselves. Oh, wait, that's what they were doing in Miyagi's sh^g shack.
share"Any dude would respond to pouring water on him and his weed by chasing down another dude who did it, especially if that guy has history of provoking the guy he soaked wet. Any dude would. And any good friend would join. Now, if CK just randomly chased after Daniel than you can say they are crazy but they were provoked. Also, Johnny couldn't stop beating his ass because of the heat of the moment. Call it red mist."
Amazing. You can't help but victim blame. If your son ever pours water on a kid in high school, and that kid responds by him and his 4 friends beating him down repeatedly and putting him in the hospital (assuming there isn't a magical old man appearing out of the mist) pleeeeeeease remember this logic. Provoked by water = totally cool with 5-on-1 assault and battery.
"Honey, why are we bankrupt? Is it because of that civil lawsuit brought by the victim's family?"
"Honey, they provoked our son! They poured water on him! Even dampened his joint! What was he supposed to do, laugh? Move on with his life? NOPE. 5-on-1 coma is the only way it sticks. Oh, FYI, we just lost our house."
Do I have that right? Water = provoking = ANY ASSAULT IS NOW LEGAL BEAGLE. MORE GUYS THE BETTER. Man, why doesn't the law agree with us? It's BS!
Unless this is one grand troll? In which case, A+, good sir.
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Sigh.
The 5-on-1 thing was in reference to you defending Johnny at various points. I'll repeat, in reference to Johnny: no human being could seriously defend the idea of a dude responding to another dude pouring water on him by chasing him down with four other friends and beating him to a pulp, even when he couldn't stand. That'd be...you know, sociopathic.
You keep referencing interrupting a class as sociopathic behavior. Just curious, what else do you find sociopathic? Turning the volume on the TV up too loud? Putting chocolate milk in one's cereal? Inserting the toilet paper roll so that you have to pull the paper from underneath the roll, rather than over the top? (actually, that last one is infuriating).
Well I'll be, you got me there. Yup, that totally excuses it. Why let your best fighter fight Daniel honorably, win or lose, when if you hurt him intentionally you can avoid the fighting in the first place! Cause, that's what grown men do, right? For crying out loud, even the Cobra Kai dudes knew Kreese was wrong, and they're the type of guys who fight another guy 5 on 1! Talk about missing the point.
At least you didn't reference "war hero" again, especially given that Miyagi's medal evens that out. Fighting in Vietnam does not give you an excuse to tell your student class, we're gonna enter this tournament and beat this guy fair and square. Wait a sec, he's made it to the finals? All right, screw what I said. Take him out of commission. Let this be a lesson later in life...when it looks as if you might lose something, squirm your way out of competing, hopefully by injuring the competitor. This is what grown, US Army adults do. The Army's motto is "RUN AWAY!" right?
And you are right about a new IMdB account. I should instead be someone who argues about the Karate Kid movies for months, stretching into years. That wouldn't be sociopathic at all!
Kuato_and_George,
You preach truth.
Perfectly put Kuato_and_George.
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when if you hurt him intentionally you can avoid the fighting in the first place!
In which case Johnny should have been disqualified for kicking his opponent in an earlier match in the face. If not, then certainly for kicking Daniel in the face when he scored his first point against him after sweeping the leg.
If those pen pushers up at city hall don't like it,well, they swivel on this middle digit!
OP.. this board is a litany of absurdities.. don't take it so serious.. you'll give yourself diarrhea.
Welcome to the El Flamingo, Jeffrey!
Don't piss in the pool, Jeffrey.
The simple truth is this: Daniel is NOT the hero people make him out to be. He's a despicable human being. Worthless, weak, and Moreover, that "Slope" is a problem too. His drunkenness and creepiness is a major turn-off to his "Zen-philosophies", making blind audiences believe he's some kind of guru and that Daniel is simply misunderstood and down on his luck. Please. Far from it.
By my count, once you begin breaking these films down, you begin seeing what a chump Daniel was (I'll exclude any homo-erotic references that others make, not sure I buy all of that), and how he had a hand in nearly every one of his problems. In fact, as the great Judge Judy would say, BUT FOR HIS ACTIONS (on several occasions), this whole incident never happens. Since Johnny and his pals were more than amiable, perhaps Daniel, under other circumstances, could have been welcomed into their group, and perhaps his fate different. But he COULDN'T LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE, NOW, COULD HE??
"You can just stand there, ... and let him kick your ass!"
--Sensei Terry Silver Karate Kid III
You see, I agree that in certain ways Daniel brought a lot on himself.
Pretending he knew karate to Freddy was always going to alienate him once he was found out for starters. But let's look at the whole picture.
The Beach:
Once Daniel struck Johnny (sucker punch) he was going to get hit back and could have expected no less. He further compounded his predicament by not staying down. But to be fair, Johnny drew first blood by shoving Daniel to the ground. I don't buy this talking to his girlfriend, ex or otherwise as an excuse to do that. Johnny was looking to vent his anger on someone and Daniel fitted the bill seeing as Johnny had witnessed them on the beach.
The scene at the soccer trials though was not initiated by Daniel. Johnny told Bobby to get him. Now we all know that a slide tackle is legal, but you (being a soccer fan) also know that it is a technique that is exploited by players to the point where if a player gets it right then he can take a person out of the game (injuring them) without fouling them according to the rules of the game. A technicality if you like. Now there was and never could be a guarantee that Bobby would get it technically right, nor was there any real attempt to get the ball more than Daniel. As was previously stated, Johnny said 'Get him Bobby'.
The tumble down the hill:
Exactly where did Daniel initiate proceedings here? he was simply riding home on his bike.
The Halloween beating:
Yes Daniel caused his own problem here. He could not have expected to get away with soaking Johnny.
Overall though, a lot of the problems come down to a mixture of Daniel being stubborn and unable to hold his mouth, and Johnny's jealousy.
And that's just part 1.
Part 2.
Chozen had it in for him once he knew he was Miyagis student. Is that Daniels fault?
Part 3.
Silver made it his personal quest to get Daniel. He manipulated the kid (Daniel, i've been making you do things you don't want to do since we met). And why? because Daniel won the tournament? Was it Daniels fault Kreeses students left? No.
Then we have Barnes.Barnes deliberately confronted Daniel because he was paid to by silver. As was Snake and Dennis.
Did Daniel initiate any of this? Hell, he wasn't going to even enter the tournament. Silver forced that issue with his scheme.
As for Miyagi, how many times across all three (4 if you wish) movies do we see Miyagi drunk, or partaking in a drink of alcohol? I mean one scene does not a drunk make. Where I agree with you is the fact that as the series went on, the more mystical they made him. Almost like Kwai Chan Caine from 'Kung Fu'. I mean to be fair, he was a fvc<ing fisherman/handyman, not a Shaolin monk. But his creepiness, as you call it, is as much down to the fact audience perception has changed over the years rather than it is actually creepy. You might as well say the same of Doc Brown in Back to the Future for his relationship with the 17 years old Marty McFly.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
Where I agree with you is the fact that as the series went on, the more mystical they made him. Almost like Kwai Chan Caine from 'Kung Fu'. I mean to be fair, he was a fvc<ing fisherman/handyman, not a Shaolin monk.
Can't fault your synopsis there Ben.
It wasnt me, it was the other three. Hang them!
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well alright then..
Welcome to the El Flamingo, Jeffrey!
Don't piss in the pool, Jeffrey.
It's hard to tell if the OP is going along with the trolling or if he's really serious. Either way, it's entertaining.
DISPLAY thy breasts, my Julia!
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Daniel was a bully. Please click on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM#t=270
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Time for another bump
"Obamacare: It only works if you don't!"