Mrs. Moore’s death


Was there some kind of karmic purpose behind the death of Mrs. Moore?

Consider that:

1) She is overwhelmed by the caves and leaves immediately.

2) Upon departing from India, she notices Godbhole at the train station in a very mystical stance. She seems to recognize some significance behind his presence there.

3) Her death on the ship is preceded by her consciousness of the echoes from the cave.

4) She could have cleared Aziz had she been present at the trial; however, her absence paves the way for Miss Quested’s recantation.

5) Godbhole knows that the news contained in the telegram to Fielding concerns Mrs. Moore’s death, even before it is revealed to him.

6) Fielding marries Mrs. Moore’s daughter, Stella.

7) Aziz feels vindicated that Fielding did not marry Miss Quested, and rejoices to the name of “Mrs. Moore” upon hearing this news.


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This is another mysterious part of the film.

Maybe she is not dead. We never see her die. Even the heartbeats that we hear never really stops.

Maybe she wanted to change her life and start a new non-english one. Or maybe her death is symbolic.

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Actually, we do see her die.

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Yes, she does die onscreen. And if it's not her, who's body was thrown overboard? Did she just left up the flag and swim away when the ship was out of sight?

There may be honor among thieves, but there's NONE in politicians!

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The flag did not go overboard with her. Her body was placed in a body bag, then placed on a platform, with a British flag draped over the body bag. The flag is fastened to the platform at the inboard end, but left loose at the outboard end. The platform is then tilted enough to cause the body to slide off the platform into the sea, but the flag, still being fastened to the platform, is retained on board the ship. The flag is then folded, and in some cases is presented to surviving family members.




"Beautiful evening. You can almost see the stars..." — J. Frank Parnell, "Repo Man"

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I never understood why so many people say (including the Indian defense attorneys at Aziz's trial) Mrs. Moore could have cleared Aziz. She is nowhere near Aziz or Miss Quested when the alleged incident occurs. She stopped to rest in the shade after the first cave and did not go on with the others. She could have spoken favorably of his moral character, perhaps, but she was not in fact present when the subject of the trial occurred.

I agree that this movie is quite mysterious and full of unanswered riddles. It reminded me of the earlier Australian film "Picnic at Hanging Rock." It seems that colonial Englishness goes well with enigmatic mystery!

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I think it was more that Mrs. Moore would be a character witness for Aziz. But anyway, I think Ali was just grandstanding for the Indian crowd.

"Anyone can go to Baghdad. Real men go to Tehran!"

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Also Mrs. Moore's testimony that it was her who had told Aziz to leave the rest of the group behind when he went off with Adela would have disproved the prosecution's theory that Aziz planned the whole thing to get Adela alone in the cave.

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The point of the death is the theme of destiny; Mrs Moore's death was natural indicating it was going to happen at that time regardless of location. Professor Godbole and Mrs Moore both showed belief in the fact that what would happen would happen regardless of attempt to alter fate. When Mrs Moore died it proved she was right in leaving India and truly couldn't have testified anyways leaving the conclusion of the case up to Miss Quested coming to terms with the blurry events herself. She was already dead by the time the crowd was demanding her leaving it completely out of her hands.

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...and even if she had been alive to testify, what then? She wasn't there when the alleged incident happened. The English were going to believe what they wanted to believe regardless of what she did or didn't say. It was only when Adela recanted the accusation--only that foundational move, that allowed no going forward with the case no matter what was at stake politically and culturally (because by that time, the case wasn't about the alleged incident at all)--that stopped the false prosecution of Aziz.

You're right--it goes along with the repeated theme of "it's going to go like it's going to go, regardless of what you do or don't do." A dubious philosophy, IMO, although to be fair it's oversimplified by stating it in this linear Western form. But at any rate, it's clearly in keeping with what's going on in the story.

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Yeah....I did pick up on the fact that Mrs. Moore didn't necessarily need to die. As far as the plot was concerned, her son was really no longer the main character, and she left the place where the action was taking place, so her story arc was over.

Two other things I picked up on:
1. The judge says: "As far as the court is concerned, Mrs. Moore does not exist"
2. One lawyer goes insane at Mrs. Moore's absence
3. Mrs. Moore knows something is wrong in the caves even though she isn't there



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It's been years since I read the book, but I seem to recall that Mrs. Moore wanted to testify at the trial, but her son wouldn't allow it. He insisted she leave India immediately; in the movie it seems to be her idea to leave.

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taylorje comments that Mrs Moore wanted to testify and that it was her son who made her leave India. Now that makes sense. The movie version has Mrs Moore suddenly deciding to return to England of her own volition. That action clashes with her character. She certainly would have wanted to help Dr Aziz. Her going away seems very selfish and uncaring. It would have been far better had the movie Mrs Moore been determined to defend her Indian friend.

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The book and the film actually agree that Mrs. Moore decided to leave on her own. She was already looking at her ticket to see that it was refundable so that her return date could be moved up. Her son Ronny's contribution, after that, was only to decide that since she refused to be involved in the trial, she should leave before the trial. But Mrs. Moore had already definitely refused to testify. "I have nothing to do with your ludicrous law courts...."

The explanation for this decision is the experience she had in the cave. E. M. Forster, the book's author, has been criticized by some for the fact that mystic spiritual states play such a role in the plot, and this is true. Professor Godbole recognized that Mrs. Moore was "a very old soul" and, as she is portrayed both in the book and in the movie, her spiritual understanding is based on love. This is why seeing the superior attitude of the British at the "Bridge Party" was so distressing to her. In the book, she says to her son Ronny, "God has put us on this earth in order to be pleasant to each other. God...is...love." Her statement in the movie is very similar.

What seems to happen in the cave is that this spiritually advanced state of mind changes. In the context of Hinduism, there are stages of spiritual attainment, and based on how she looks and behaves, the experience in the cave apparently caused Mrs. Moore to move on to what has been considered the final stage, which is known as nirvikalpa-samadhi. Basically, before the cave, Mrs. Moore experienced what would be called a 'unitive state', in which she felt herself to be related to all others by love. (It was this aspect of her that made such a powerful impression on Azziz.) But despite its name, this state is actually based on a subtle perception of duality. In order to have love, you have to have two participants, the one who loves and the 'other' who is loved, even if that 'other' is God and the totality of the Creation.

In the state of nirvikalpa-samadhi, the spiritual perception is that there is only One, and so the previous experience of 'love' and 'God' are not present in the way they were before. For one whose experience of God has been the experience of love, this can be a devastating transition. But in Mrs. Moore's case, she is about to die, and it is an appropriate transition for her to make in preparation for that. The state of nirvikalpa-samadhi has been described in the West as the state of "no-self". The experiencer realizes that all the 'separate other selves' with whom she has been relating are ultimately just expressions of One Essence and her identity is now focused in the One.

This transition would be like the one you make from a state of being so absorbed in a film that you forget for a moment that it's not real -- you invest emotionally in the story -- to the moment when you 'wake up' and realize again that it's just a movie. Once you 'wake up', compared to your 'real life', the people and the story in the movie have relatively no significance, even if you love the people in the movie and love the movie itself. This is why Mrs. Moore isn't really as callous as she seems when she says to Ronny "...all this rubbish about love, love in a church, love in a cave, as if there is the least difference, and I held up from my business over such trifles!"

At this point, she is still traumatized by the loss of her previous sense of self and probably also by the realization that it's impossible to explain this to anyone else. As the book puts it, "Her Christian tenderness had gone." And later: "her mind seemed to move towards them from a great distance and out of darkness. 'Oh, why is everything still my duty? when shall I be free from your fuss? Was he in the cave and were you in the cave and on and on...and Unto us a Son is born, unto us a Child is given...and am I good and is he bad and are we saved...and ending everything, the echo'."

Professor Godbole reflects this state of consciousness also, but in a more stable way, since he has had more time to become accustomed to it. After the incident at the cave, he says to Fielding "I hope the expedition was a successful one." Fielding says "The news has not reached you yet, I can see." Godbole says "Oh yes." Fielding says "No; there has been a terrible catastrophe about Aziz." "Oh yes. That is all round the College." "Well, the expedition where that occurs can scarcely be called a successful one," says Fielding, with an amazed stare. And Godbole replies "I cannot say. I was not present." The book describes Fielding's thoughts about this "He stared again— a most useless operation, for no eye could see what lay at the bottom of the Brahman's mind, and yet he had a mind and a heart too, and all his friends trusted him." Nirvikalpa-Samadhi is not heartlessness, it is simply a higher understanding of what is ultimately most positive and necessary, an understanding that ordinary ego consciousness doesn't have. For Mrs. Moore, karma has ended.

As Mrs. Moore's train is leaving the station, Professor Godbole steps out of the shadows and raises his arms up over his head, palms together. This is a variation of the Anjali mudra. Usually made at the level of the heart and accompanied by the word "Namaste", it is a recognition of respect from one soul to another. When made at the level of the Crown chakra above the head, the gesture is a sign of highest acknowledgement of one's Divine nature; the Professor is acknowledging Mrs. Moore's spiritual attainment. Seeing him and meeting his eyes, Mrs. Moore would now be aware that, unlike everyone else she has been interacting with since the cave, the Professor's consciousness is focused at the same level as her own. "Deep calls to deep" is the saying.

Forster describes this state as well as anyone can: "In Europe, life retreats out of the cold, and exquisite fireside myths have resulted—Balder, Persephone—but here (in India) the retreat is from the source of life, the treacherous sun, and no poetry adorns it because disillusionment cannot be beautiful. Men yearn for poetry though they may not confess it; they desire that joy shall be graceful and sorrow august and infinity have a form, and India fails to accommodate them." Released from the illusion of form, Nirvikalpa-samadhi is 'the formless'.

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two." [Nisargadatta Maharaj]

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wandering with the Woozle along the wu wei

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Can you please remove your SPOILER, OP? Many people have not seen this movie as of yet...

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