just watched the printing scene - To Live and Die in L.A. (1985) Discussion

[–] thbryn 11 years ago

I'm not sure how authentic it really is? It might be, IDK. But Masters certainly looked like he knew what he was doing and it was a great scene with no dialogue.

Kisskiss, Bangbang

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[–] Mr-Fusion 11 years ago

I'm not sure how authentic it really is?

I get what you mean. As in, is this what counterfeiters really do? But the authenticity of that scene can't even be questioned. And what I mean by that is the process depicted, and Dafoe's intensity and concentration make that scene all too real to be ... "fake", for lack of a better word. The mixing of the paint to get just the right green, meticulous painting over inconsistencies, and care and attention that's all over Dafoe's face. He makes it real.

The only artistic license that seems obvious is when Masters breathes on the sheet metal to show the impression of the money - But that was only to clue in the audience on what he was doing (we couldn't see the impression otherwise).

It's a very well-done scene.

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[–] kenny-164 11 years ago

thbryn's question is both interesting and totally beside the point, as Fusion's response alludes to.

The question would be interesting if one literally wondered if the film was showing how to counterfeit money. As I assume most know now, even if it was that at the time, technology has far surpassed the process.

But the scene succeeds because it is plausible and compelling. Having met those two needs, it need not have also been literally accurate.

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[–] mickycub 11 years ago

Years ago, i read an article about this particular part of the film. It said that they used a real counterfeiter to produce "real" counterfit notes. Friedkin apparently was questioned by the treasury department and the US atorneys office. I'm not sure how accurate this story is but I guess I chose to believe it simply because it made the whole scene much more compelling.

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[–] Rigel1337 8 years ago

Friedkin comments about it on the DVD. One of the crew member's son's got his hands on a few of the bills they printed with their expert and tried to use it at a convenience store to buy something. The clerk knew right away what he had in his hands because the film crew decided to only print the bills with one side. The other side was just blank paper.

I used to work in a offset lithographic print shop and we purchased the same brand of inks (VanSon) Dafoe's character has stacked up by the press. The type of press Defoe's character uses in this is commonly revered to as a letter press and was only intended to print using one color of ink. Of course inks could be blended and printed on top of each other but that gets more tricky because of drying time and proper registration otherwise all the paper sticks together and you just have scrap.

Here's a Youtube of one like in Dafoe's shop
https://youtu.be/1bFLCVDb3nU

Friedkin went on to say that the authorities did get involved because of that incident and they ended up having a lot of explaining to do.

When the bills are burned in one part of the movie, Friedkin worried that the audience might see that the back side of many ended up blank.

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[–] coex 11 years ago

reminds me of Peter Cushing at the beginning of one of those 70s Hammer Frankenstein films (wish I could remember which one). Cushing handles a bunch of medical instruments as the title and credits roll on top. He is absolutely convincing while he is doing this... as it plays on, you get completely absorbed in what he is doing. Later, I remember reading that he had no idea what he was doing, but put on a great show! Whether or not this printing scene is authentic is beside the point: the filmmakers and Defoe do a fine job of presenting it AS real. And that is what film is about!

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[–] parkpunk 11 years ago

I'm watching the DVD right now and William Friedkin swears it is 100% accurate.

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[–] kairingler 11 years ago

that scene was pretty awesome,, I used to work in the Casino's in the late 80's to early 00's.. and let me tell you I been around more $$ and counted it by hand than Bill Gates is worth,, it's something else when you're responsibe for about 65 million a day,,
are you going to bark all day little doggie,, or are you going to bite

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[–] jefgg 8 years ago

The counterfeiting montage looks authentic because director William Friedkin consulted actual counterfeiters who had done time. The "consultant" actually did the scenes that do not show actor Willem Dafoe on camera to give this sequence more authenticity even though the actor learned how to print money. Over one million dollars of counterfeit money was produced but with three deliberate errors so that it could not be used outside the film. The filmmakers burned most of the fake money but some leaked out, was used, and linked back to the production. The son of one of the crew members tried to use some of the prop money to buy candy at a local store and was caught. Three Secret Service agents interviewed crew members including Friedkin who screened the workprint for them. He offered to show the film to the Secretary of the Treasury and take out anything that was a danger to national security. That was the last he heard from the government.

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[–] BlueMojo 8 years ago

I would be interested to know what the "errors" were. I agree that there are some omissions in the process, but as a printing veteran (but not a counterfeiter) who got my start just before this film was released, everything that I saw seemed accurate for the time. The big issue with the old bills was always correctly reproducing the stock (paper) but the actual printing wouldn't have been too difficult.

When I was in high school votech at the time, a couple of guys had gotten expelled for attempting to counterfeit. They got caught before they even got to press.

It's cool seeing some of the old process though. The scenes where Masters is manipulating the film is called "stripping" in the industry and has since been completely computerized. All of those artists, and there were many with absolutely incredible skill, became obsolete as film has been, in most commercial shops, removed from the equation. Nowadays, you make the correction/change on the computer and it goes direct to plate.

It's a shame seeing true craftsmen lose their purpose though.

💵

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[–] MoviemanCin 8 years ago

Yes very authentic. I used to be a Print Buyer so I especially noticed the inking of the press.

Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar, and / or doesn't.

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