like Top Gun as well. It's probably the consummate MTV generation blockbuster
That's true, it is a classic whether you like it or not!
But not only did it take itself too seriously, but it presented a lead character (Maverick) who was neither sympathetic or very relatable/likeable. The guy continually show boats and puts not only his job but his life at risk... along with his wingman's! (who has no option but to put up with his bull$hit since he's stuck in the back seat at the mercy of this ego maniac with a death wish). Plus, he also puts his team at risk.
I don't think a movie is as worthwhile when the hero is a douchenozzle. Contrast Maverick to Doug Masters - a guy who risks everything to save his father. He's impressionable, bright and a fun guy (only flies better when his favorite 1980s rock song comes on).
I like how the makers of Iron Eagle basically reinvented Star Wars but with fighter jets. For example:
Masters = Skywalker. Both of similar age. Both long for their fathers, both get help from a wise old sage (Gossett Jr). They have the same hopes and dreams (luke wants to join academy, get away - so does Masters). Both talented pilots. Masters gets help from his Eagles Team (just like Han, Chewie etc) to get the "plans" for the attack. Both movies end with one giant showdown involving flying.
Top Gun was pitched as "Star Wars on earth" except the producers failed to realize all they had was fighter jets and a soundtrack - beyond that the film fell way short. I loved the film as a kid but now I find there is a really uncomfortable tone permeating throughout it. It's just so uneasy - and I'm not talking about all the male shower and shirtless volleyball scenes. It has a brutal excess just dripping out of it. The dialogue and in your faceness etc - it's kind of ugly. The only good guy in it gets killed off out of nowhere - and he has a family! It just makes little sense.
But as you said the aerial photography makes it all worthwhile. I think the F-14 makes the movie, as does the guitar anthem that plays throughout it. Other than that, Iron Eagle beats it. But I suppose their good counter points to each other - Top Gun has all the flash, Iron Eagle has the substance.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
I like how the makers of Iron Eagle basically reinvented Star Wars but with fighter jets. For example:
Â
Wow, I'd never made that connection before, but you're %100 right.
Â
Top Gun was pitched as "Star Wars on earth" except the producers failed to realize all they had was fighter jets and a soundtrack - beyond that the film fell way short. I loved the film as a kid but now I find there is a really uncomfortable tone permeating throughout it. It's just so uneasy - and I'm not talking about all the male shower and shirtless volleyball scenes. It has a brutal excess just dripping out of it. The dialogue and in your faceness etc - it's kind of ugly. The only good guy in it gets killed off out of nowhere - and he has a family! It just makes little sense.
Â
I still enjoy the aerial photography and the soundtrack, but in general it doesn't captivate me the way it did when I was 12. I think part of that is the excessive egotism that renders virtually all of the characters unlikeable. And Cruise's Maverick doesn't learn anything; He's a jerk. His buddy gets killed. He broods. He's still a jerk, but he saves the day! The End. You're right, it is kind of ugly. I saw the Special Edition DVD in the $5 bargain bin @ Wal-Mart a while back and I passed on it... and I've purchased some seriously questionable movies from those bargain bins .
I agree with you;
TG has the flash, but
IE has the heart. If I had to pick one to watch once a year, every year, it would be
IE hands down.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
Wow, I'd never made that connection before, but you're %100 right.
I might not be right, I think I'm just guessing, but the first Star Wars movie was probably a huge factor in the way 80s action-adventure movies were approached - obviously that influence has been there ever since the 70s, but in the 80s especially they got the textures and themes just right to create "mini" Star Wars movies - sort of like spin offs using the same formula.
Other stuff from that era like Masters of the Universe, Innerspace, Willow, The Rescue even Spaceballs (it spoofed star wars but it had its own story and characters) I found were all from the same angle. The basic template was there, and in particular with subtle nuances in the way the characters were portrayed (Doug Masters as Skywalker in this movie, or for example Dennis Quaid as a Han Solo type in Innerspace) is what stood out to me. Watching these movies was like watching Star Wars all over again but in a different, less grand setting.
Top Gun however, tries to basically make 'Maverick' into Skywalker (and thus another Star Wars type story) but fails since Cruise is more of a serious actor and not a 'hero'. It's easier for us to relate to a Hamill since he has depth and emotion. In TG unlikable characters abound, and it gets tiresome.
still enjoy the aerial photography and the soundtrack, but in general it doesn't captivate me the way it did when I was 12. I think part of that is the excessive egotism that renders virtually all of the characters unlikeable. And Cruise's Maverick doesn't learn anything; He's a jerk. His buddy gets killed. He broods. He's still a jerk, but he saves the day!
I agree. His character succeeds despite him spending the movie being an ego maniac. That's why I just don't enjoy it as much as I did since being older, you notice these things more!
saw the Special Edition DVD in the $5 bargain bin @ Wal-Mart a while back and I passed on it... and I've purchased some seriously questionable movies from those bargain bins .
That's great! I know what you know mean. I can barely sit through TG without fast forwarding all the scenes on the ground.
You're right, both have the great flying scenes, but I'll take Iron Eagle anyday for the full package.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
I might not be right, I think I'm just guessing, but the first Star Wars movie was probably a huge factor in the way 80s action-adventure movies were approached - obviously that influence has been there ever since the 70s, but in the 80s especially they got the textures and themes just right to create "mini" Star Wars movies - sort of like spin offs using the same formula.
Other stuff from that era like Masters of the Universe, Innerspace, Willow, The Rescue even Spaceballs (it spoofed star wars but it had its own story and characters) I found were all from the same angle. The basic template was there, and in particular with subtle nuances in the way the characters were portrayed (Doug Masters as Skywalker in this movie, or for example Dennis Quaid as a Han Solo type in Innerspace) is what stood out to me. Watching these movies was like watching Star Wars all over again but in a different, less grand setting.
Oh, absolutely. Whatever someone might think of
Star Wars and its dramatic merits, it's hard to argue that it's not the most influential movie of the last quarter of the 20th century, if not all-time. Hollywood did a complete sea change after it was released. The gritty, downbeat films that had defined 70s cinema were suddenly shoved aside and the age of the blockbuster was born. Films as genre diverse as
Krull and
MegaForce (and your spot-on examples too) all owe their existence to the fact that Hollywood was trying to tap into that feel-good adventure zeitgeist created by
Star Wars.
Top Gun however, tries to basically make 'Maverick' into Skywalker (and thus another Star Wars type story) but fails since Cruise is more of a serious actor and not a 'hero'. It's easier for us to relate to a Hamill since he has depth and emotion. In TG unlikable characters abound, and it gets tiresome.
Exactly.
I agree. His character succeeds despite him spending the movie being an ego maniac. That's why I just don't enjoy it as much as I did since being older, you notice these things more!
I think kids, especially 'tweens and teens, naturally tend to gravitate toward self-centered, self-obsessed characters because, let's face it, who is more self-centered and self-obsessed than teens ?
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
Oh, absolutely. Whatever someone might think of Star Wars and its dramatic merits, it's hard to argue that it's not the most influential movie of the last quarter of the 20th century, if not all-time. Hollywood did a complete sea change after it was released. The gritty, downbeat films that had defined 70s cinema were suddenly shoved aside and the age of the blockbuster was born
Definitely. Star Wars completely revolutionized the whole of cinema - no question. However, in the 1980s I think they were able to tap into its legacy a lot more clinically and without being so obvious. Iron Eagle itself is just star wars reinvented - but it's so subtle most people would never notice. It's also not as cynical as your average knock off - there is care and development to a film like Iron Eagle. I think after the 80s, in terms of PG themed action-adventure - they lost their way a little, and were never as well produced. Take stuff like Independence Day for example - many parts of it derivative of SW (captain hill and the space battles) - yet done to such a crappy standard.
The balance of genuine storytelling was just right in the 80s and as a result SW's spirit was still very much alive in films completely unrelated to the original trilogy. That's a testament to how strong the saga was and how much the movies kept the feeling going (while still, most importantly, being their own film). Movies, especially adrenaline fuelled high octane ones, were always following Star Wars's precedent - just not to the same level as the 80s class which included this movie.
I think kids, especially 'tweens and teens, naturally tend to gravitate toward self-centered, self-obsessed characters because, let's face it, who is more self-centered and self-obsessed than teens
Haha, that's true! What's weird is find many people in my age group (20s) quoting Top Gun. It seems even more popular now with people than it was when I was a kid.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
I think after the 80s, in terms of PG themed action-adventure - they lost their way a little, and were never as well produced. Take stuff like Independence Day for example - many parts of it derivative of SW (captain hill and the space battles) - yet done to such a crappy standard.
Mmm-hmm. Exactly. I think these later knock-offs are like an echo; the further you get away from the original source, the weaker it is. I don't know what it is about proximity that has that effect on these things. Maybe it's because they're still tapping into the same cultural energy. Perhaps the latter versions try to graft too much of the current zeitgeist onto the frame of it. I don't know.
Haha, that's true! What's weird is find many people in my age group (20s) quoting Top Gun. It seems even more popular now with people than it was when I was a kid.
I know! I'm 38, but I work with several guys who are in their early 20s and we reference
TG on an almost daily basis. My favorite is when we see an attractive woman and then belatedly discover she's with a guy--"Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.". In fact, we all adopted call signs from the movie. Luckily I got Iceman. The staying power of the film is impressive.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
Maybe it's because they're still tapping into the same cultural energy. Perhaps the latter versions try to graft too much of the current zeitgeist onto the frame of it. I don't know.
Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. I personally think they're trying too hard and being too obvious in some cases, or just the subject material just isn't very good.
My favorite is when we see an attractive woman and then belatedly discover she's with a guy--"Negative, Ghostrider. The pattern is full.". In fact, we all adopted call signs from the movie. Luckily I got Iceman. The staying power of the film is impressive.
That's genuis! I gotta use that. I'm going to be thinking about that all the time now. I've heard top gun quotes but not as funny as that. Just when someone does something wrong and needs an answer someone says "Talk to me, Goose" or another one when I was at a paintballing range and I heard some nerds shout "He's going for the hard deck, lets get down there first and nail him" which I think was there inside code for an enemy running away, and a sign for them to start chasing him down and shoot him before he can escape or hide. At least that's what I thought, and it made me laugh a little.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
Just when someone does something wrong and needs an answer someone says "Talk to me, Goose"
I'm so using that tomorrow! God knows at least once a day at work I find my self needing some divine intervention .
or another one when I was at a paintballing range and I heard some nerds shout "He's going for the hard deck, lets get down there first and nail him" which I think was there inside code for an enemy running away, and a sign for them to start chasing him down and shoot him before he can escape or hide. At least that's what I thought, and it made me laugh a little.
I guess any movie we're still quoting nearly 30 years after the fact can't be all bad.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
I've heard people use "I'm too close for missles, switching to guns" but not sure where I heard it, or what context! Pretty sure it's sexual for some reason!
You're right, top gun is just a movie that resonates with people, even if it is kinda cheese and gay antics. It's got that thing.
ps I use Iron Eagle quotes in life, but no one I know has seen it, or likes it to the level where they'd know dialogue, but me and my older brother sometimes say "damn it chappy, I'm doing it my way!" when something sucks and you want to do something else, and also the line from the motor cycle-cessna chase "Hey! that's not the main road!" when we're driving. We always crack up. It's kinda just our thing since we watched Iron Eagle together as kids.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
I've heard people use "I'm too close for missles, switching to guns" but not sure where I heard it, or what context! Pretty sure it's sexual for some reason!
I'd
bet on it. We've all had to switch to guns... though it's been nearly year for some of us. Ahem.
You're right, top gun is just a movie that resonates with people, even if it is kinda cheese and gay antics. It's got that thing.
I think the cheese factor is a big part of what keeps it alive. This movie is a big 'ol F.U. to the lactose intolerant.
ps I use Iron Eagle quotes in life, but no one I know has seen it, or likes it to the level where they'd know dialogue, but me and my older brother sometimes say "damn it chappy, I'm doing it my way!" when something sucks and you want to do something else, and also the line from the motor cycle-cessna chase "Hey! that's not the main road!" when we're driving. We always crack up. It's kinda just our thing since we watched Iron Eagle together as kids.
That's great . It's better that not many people would get that. It makes it something special between you and your brother.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
I'd bet on it. We've all had to switch to guns... though it's been nearly year for some of us. Ahem
Haha! Think it might've been about butt sex. It could even be a popular phase in the gay community if you think about it.
This movie is a big 'ol F.U. to the lactose intolerant.
That's a great phrase!
It's better that not many people would get that
True. I find many people have their own quotes from movies, not just really popular ones - just stuff only they would know.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
Haha! Think it might've been about butt sex. It could even be a popular phase in the gay community if you think about it.
Whoa-ho-ho, disregard that last comment then .
True. I find many people have their own quotes from movies, not just really popular ones - just stuff only they would know.
And the more obscure the better. I grew up in the dawn of HBO, which allowed a whole generation of kids to watch R-rated movies that they never would've been able to see just a few years before. Thus my friends and I had some rather... colorful ...movie quotes back in the day.
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
And the more obscure the better. I grew up in the dawn of HBO, which allowed a whole generation of kids to watch R-rated movies that they never would've been able to see just a few years before. Thus my friends and I had some rather... colorful ...movie quotes back in the day.
Haha, that's great. Let me guess, Robocop and Die Hard etc?
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
Absolutely! RoboCop, anything with Arnold. That "R" rating was like a flame and we were moths. The biggest mistake my Mom ever made was letting me move into my Brother's room when he joined the Army. I had Cinemax and a VCR. Bad combo for a ten year old kid .
How about you?
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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Hendry_William_French
11 years ago
That "R" rating was like a flame and we were moths
Man, I so understand what you're saying. I got a chance to see all those movies from an early age thanks in part to my parents not reading a movie's rating - but its title. My dad thought Robocop was a kids movie because it sounded like one, and I saw it like at age 6 or 7 or some $hit. After that, I was like a crackhead in search of another hit - and action movies were my drug of choice!
Commando, Rambo, Predator - I saw everything in time down to lax parenting, older sibling negotiations (they had access to certain films - I didn't, but I used the "I'll tell mom you did this if you don't let me watch..." trick and usually they handed over the goods asap) and also watching cable when parents were out and babysitter was talking to friends on phone. Not sure if I should be proud of that! Seeing that mutant toxic waste stumbling around like a zombie before being ran over in robocop is not something the average young kid should see!
The biggest mistake my Mom ever made was letting me move into my Brother's room when he joined the Army. I had Cinemax and a VCR. Bad combo for a ten year old kid
Man, this is gold! Really funny.
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Fluke_Skywalker
11 years ago
Man, I so understand what you're saying. I got a chance to see all those movies from an early age thanks in part to my parents not reading a movie's rating - but its title. My dad thought Robocop was a kids movie because it sounded like one, and I saw it like at age 6 or 7 or some $hit. After that, I was like a crackhead in search of another hit - and action movies were me drug of choice!
Commando, Rambo, Predator - I saw everything in time down to lax parenting, older sibling negotiations (they had access to certain films - I didn't, but I used the "I'll tell mom you did this if you don't let me watch..." trick and usually they handed over the goods asap) and also watching cable when parents were out and babysitter was talking to friends on phone. Not sure if I should be proud of that!
You should be
very proud of that, and the best thing is, you'll know better than to let your kids get away with it!
Seeing that mutant toxic waste stumbling around like a zombie before being ran over in robocop is not something the average young kid should see!
Ugh, no doubt. I'm 38 and I still have trouble watching that scene .
'Cause there's thunder in your heart... every move is like lightning!
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