Rimmer & Lister British types?
As both Craig Charles and Chris Barrie pointed out that they're strong English/British types, what is so English about them?
shareLister is post 1960 laddish northern working class therefore likes curry, lager, and always dreaming of being on holiday. He also happens to be Liverpudlian which has one of the proudest, socialistic, sections of all UK working class. Overconfidence in relatively little to the point of touchiness or passive aggressive chippiness could arguably be said to be a British trait.
Rimmer is more Southern, (one of the prosperous shires), middle class and he suffers the prejudices against low rank that can entail when all you've ended up doing is refilling and cleaning vending machines instead of, say, winning a world war like your father might.
The British type boils down 'never fulfilled potential because it never seemed to have a Lister or Rimmer shaped hole in modern society'. Both have had family problems - Lister was a literal orphan, Rimmer a metaphorical one.
It says a lot about Britain, with its strange blend of socialism and individualism, that Lister and Rimmer are types, although Rimmer is a far less seen type in real life than used to be the case and, really, when people say Rimmer is a type they probably mean his nerdiness OR his adherence to rules and regulations. Even then , they could be talking about Gordon Brittas but Brittas is relatively 'nice' if dim whereas Rimmer has bitterness and can be conniving. So if Rimmer is a British type, it means that we create sometimes pathologically bitter, boring (I use the slides show of the diesel decks as evidence), people.
Think it was one of the reasons the american pilot failed because all their British traits don't quite translate into american, you have Rimmer wanting to be a sort of officer class and with the talk of not having the right background, school or parents etc which seems very British.
shareYes, it is - that's the joke, of course. Rimmer ascribes his failure to his lack of advantages, when obviously he had advantages in spades and his brothers, with the same background, were hugely successful.
Any fans of Dad's Army here? there's a similar joke between Captain Manwaring and Sergeant Wilson, with Manwaring getting all uptight whenever Wilson refers to his boarding school, his regiment and so on; Wilson, easy-going and charming, isn't bothered at all.
My knowledge of American society is derived almost entirely from films, but I think it's not true to say that it's a completely class-free society, is it? The right background, the right education, the right university, is still an advantage? I think I'm thinking of Trading Places. I'd be interested to discuss this.
In America you can change class like a Hollywood actor going from poor to rich. You hear talk of a middle or working class but probably doesn't mean squat because you can make millions by the job.
If Rimmer was an American he would be like a New York Jewish comedian type.
Interesting, Glynis - in England class is not determined by money. Many upper-class people are rich, of course, but it's not the same thing at all. We have plenty of working-class, self-made millionaires - think Alan Sugar - and quite a few impoverished aristocrats.
The term 'working class' is not pejorative, it's borne with pride. I read the other day, apropos the political chaos we find ourselves in at the moment, that more people than ever identify themselves as 'working class', though very few actually do manual work of the traditional kind.
If Rimmer was an American he would be like a New York Jewish comedian type.
No, he would either be a rich East Coast WASP or a military brat from a long line of officers. share
Interesting - Rimmer as having some Mainwaring traits, Lister having some Wilson traits.
Only up to a particular point of course - Lister's 'art school' (not one of the good ones) education is an irrelevance to him whereas Wilson's Cambridge University education is of pride to him, no matter how laconic an attitude he effects. (Lister's laconic side is likely to be partly because he rarely feels motivated or intellectually confident enough to argue sensibly except when Rimmer has gone full psycho or when Don Warrington's simulant spoils too much 'for a rumble' in insulting them). And Mainwaring always tried to be reasonable , even when he bristled with annoyance, whereas Rimmer , at his worst, is psychotic and sociopathic because of what appears to be split personality between low and high self esteem caused by childhood trauma (although, of course, not as severe to others as a psychopath would be although a few wax droids might not agree).
Lister is nothing like Wilson. Wilson is very upper class and refined, though relaxed and down-to-Earth.
I think they translate well enough. For instance, Rimmer is a similar character to Frank Burns from "MASH"(the tv series not the movie) in that both are weasels who have lousy luck with women, no one really likes(openly anyway) and are always acting like they should be in charge. Actually, speaking of "MASH", Lister would be quite similar to a combo of Pierce and Hunicutt as all three are easy going, don't particularly care for following rules, like to have fun and aren't particularly organized/clean.
I guess if I'm doing this for R&L I might as well do it for the rest of the main cast...Cat is similar to Klinger as both are always wearing fabulous outfits and always say or do things that are 'out of left field' compared to the rest of the cast. Off the top of my head, I guess Kryten could be a combo of O'Reilly for the social awkwardness with Mulcahy for being the conscience of the group.
A nozh scrap any time you say.
Problem being if you translate Rimmer & Lister into american they wouldn't be the characters that people have could to know and love.
shareActually, I think it could work but you'd need the right person in charge to pull it off. And, on that note, I'd say Joss Whedon would be perfect. He's really good at doing shows that revolve around a group of misfits(although "Firefly" would be the best example for obvious reasons) and he has a lot of experience at writing for sitcoms due to his stint on "Roseanne". Speaking of which, that show was big on the 'snarky insult banter' much like RD is and I'd be willing to bet money that Whedon was responsible for writing a lot of that snark if not the best examples of it.
Not that I think such a project would ever happen but one can dream, can't they? ;D lol
A nozh scrap any time you say.