Best Disney Movie with a Princess
Even Frozen can't beat this film's charm!
shareToo true BUT There's gonna be some disagreement
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MovieChat Forums > The Little Mermaid (1989) Discussion > Best Disney Movie with a Princess
The Little Mermaid remains the best film of the Disney Renaissance and should be recognized as one of the best Disney films of all time period. I have also felt that this film is Disney's best pure musical.
"Unless you're an alien, time traveler, or esper, your opinion doesn't matter."
This is one of my favorite Disney films.
Discord: "We're still on for tea later, aren't we Fluttershy?"
Fluttershy: "I wouldn't miss it"
Yeah, it most certainly can't. The Little Mermaid was considered the film that saved Disney after all, and not without a good reason.
And it's certainly among the best in the Renaissance. It's definitely better than Beauty and the Beast by a long shot, with more believable and complex characters (let's face it, at least TLM didn't heavily rely on stereotypes for most of it's main cast unlike BATB's cast, not to mention the cast actually was 3D in characterization), not to mention a plotline that actually is somewhat believable instead of contrived. Lion King might be a bit better than it, probably the only one to potentially rival it.
It's definitely better than Beauty and the Beast by a long shot,
No, it definitely is not. share
Yeah, actually, it is better than Beauty and the Beast by a long shot. At least the characters in The Little Mermaid actually had depth instead of being two-bit stereotypes (honestly, the closest any of the characters got to actually BEING stereotypical was Sebastian due to his Jamacian accent and love of music, and even THAT wasn't the entirety of his character) which, Beast aside, most of the cast in BATB quite frankly WERE stereotypical, two-bit, and lacked much depth (and in some cases failed even in that regard). Off the top of my head, we've got a sultry French maid [we've seen that in PLENTY of stories to the extent that it's frankly a cliché. And the accent was completely unnecessary since the entire setting of the film was explicitly in France.], an amorous womanizing French man, complete with an unnecessary French accent [Lumiere. Seriously, that's one of the biggest stereotypes about France, alongside being Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys and nihilistic philosophers. Besides, like with that maid, the location's set in France anyways, so why give him a completely redundant French accent?], dumb blondes which were especially popular in the 1990s [the triplets], a dumb muscle/jerk jock who basically matches up with the pig in gender studies curriculums [Gaston, and we've seen his type lots of times.], a mad scientist type [Maurice, and we've seen his type plenty of times.], a grouchy British butler [Cogsworth, seen his type before in countless stories.], a grandmotherly British maid [Mrs. Potts, and we've seen her type before in plenty of other films and stories] and a brainy brunette with a dash of 90s' feminism [Belle, and unfortunately, they couldn't even get the brainy bit right since she did several stupid things and her favorite books in the theatrical release left much to be desired especially considering her avid reader status]. And Beauty and the Beast averted stereotypes... how exactly? Not to mention the villain in The Little Mermaid actually WAS believable, actually does villainy pretty well and doesn't basically divulge her plans in public in a very reckless and stupid manner. I have more reason to fear Ursula than I do Gaston, since while it's true that her physical appearance or her practicing magic isn't exactly existent in the real world, her type IS, however. In fact, America's currently living under the likes of her, what with what Obama and Hillary Clinton have done, or what the Philosophes did that led to the French Revolution and Reign of Terror, or even the Cultural Marxist mess in our education system. If anything, GASTON's the one who is utterly unrealistic especially in the reprise where he divulges his plan to such an extent that he practically exposed himself as a scumbag in front of everyone and gets cheered on, when in real life, people like him if they admit to doing these kinds of things would have had their sorry butts hauled off to Jail and lose a lot of respect in the community, especially a Christian one as the village is implied to be. Oh, and the plot elements for The Little Mermaid, they actually DO come across as believable rather than contrived. For example, the eels managing to manipulate Ariel into going to see Ursula worked very well in the plot since they needed to use a rather underhanded tactic subtly after their attempt at directly suggesting Ariel go to her failed, and quite honestly, I actually could sympathize with Ariel after Triton had that racist tantrum that resulted in her belongings being destroyed, while with Belle, I thought Beast had more of a point in their argument afterwards than Belle since it WAS Belle who deliberately disobeyed the stipulation for staying in the castle, despite even the servants saying she shouldn't go up to the West Wing (remember, they already disobeyed an order just to feed her earlier, so it's not like they didn't have too many qualms against disobeying orders). Not to mention Ursula, unlike Gaston, actually WAS demonstrated to be manipulative very well. And quite frankly, right now, I find Ariel and Eric's falling for each other to be more believable, and I thought Eric going for Ariel despite her being a mermaid in the end to be far closer to the intended message of BATB than Beauty and the Beast's ending. And we actually have foreknowledge about how Ursula had enmity for Triton and it being made clear that everyone had been a pawn in her game, while with Gaston, the only reason he fought Beast was because of Belle's utter stupidity of exposing Beast to a congregated lynch mob despite clearly having deduced Gaston as being the one who orchestrated said mob in the first place as blackmail. And for the record, Beauty and the Beast actually relied far more on slapstick than The Little Mermaid, and I can name SEVERAL examples from that film to prove it. Ariel also had a far more understandable motive for wanting to become one with humanity and more importantly didn't diss her own home, unlike Belle, whom we not only never actually see why she wanted out of the village, but many times she basically acted rude and conceited towards them as well in the opening song.
shareYeah, actually, it is better than Beauty and the Beast by a long shot.
No, actually, it's not. share
I just gave you plenty of reasons how The Little Mermaid blows Beauty and the Beast out of the water, reasons that actually are pretty justifiable. I get it, you're unobjectively in love with the film, but the facts make bare that The Little Mermaid's the superior film in every way save for possibly budget and box office, though even then, the box office numbers for TLM aren't any less impressive since they saved Disney.
shareI get it, you're unobjectively in love with the film,
No, YOU have an unobjectively hatred for BatB, that's why you state your opinion as fact, that's why you even brought up the movie.
but the facts make bare that The Little Mermaid's the superior film in every way save for possibly budget and box office,
Box office and ratings are the only facts you can look at and in both BatB beats TLM. share
No, YOU have an unobjectively hatred for BatB, that's why you state your opinion as fact, that's why you even brought up the movie.
No, I don't have a hatred of Beauty and the Beast. Longing, nostalgic, almost heartbreak for the film due to learning some inconvenient truths about it's development that practically destroyed fond childhood memories of the film? Yes, I do have those, but I don't hate the film, and it's certainly not unobjective even if I did actually hate the film. Why is it that just because I, unlike you, don't seem to bow down and worship the ground it walks without commenting on any flaws on the film, I must automatically hate the film. I don't. In fact, I actually think Beast was a very decently handled character.
Box office and ratings are the only facts you can look at and in both BatB beats TLM.
Yeah, and Dumbo beat out Fantasia in terms of box office receipts, yet Walt Disney himself felt the latter was the better film. Box Office receipts don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. In fact, the ONLY time it actually means something is if it managed to make a struggling film studio either be saved from bankruptcy, or single-handedly/lands as a killing blow the studio with bankruptcy. And the ratings for TLM actually were superior to BATB.
And those things I cited were actual facts and stuff directly applied to the films. share
No, I don't have a hatred of Beauty and the Beast.
Yes, you do, which is proven by comments like this:
unlike you, don't seem to bow down and worship the ground it walks without commenting on any flaws on the film, I must automatically hate the film.
Complete and utter nonsense. Not once have I said the movie was flawless. I just don't agree with your ridiculous criticisms. Hardly anyone seems to, I can't believe you haven't noticed that yet.
And the ratings for TLM actually were superior to BATB.
BatB is rated higher on this site and Rotten Tomatoes, for example. You're talking nonsense.
Now shut the fnck up about other movies, this is the TLM board. share
If I actually HATED the film, I would have actually flat out said it explicitly, since I don't mince words and make sure that I say EXACTLY what I mean. And for the record, most people would consider some stuff in the film that happened such as Belle selling Beast out to Gaston, or deliberately going into the West Wing and literally winning the blame game afterwards without even directly acknowledging she was also at fault for what happened, or some of her dismissive views of the village without any direct proof that the villagers actually were bad (and by "direct proof", I mean they treated her like how Quahog treated Meg in Family Guy, or even how Drizella, Anastasia, and Lady Tremaine treated Cinderella). These are flaws that absolutely NO one can reasonably deny. Heck, I know a person on Tumblr, I believe she's called "Seethem-dancing", who does note quite a bit of flaws with Beauty and the Beast, including that Belle was basically an Adult Novel protagonist in terms of characterization, even when currently they get a lot of criticism.
And yes, you ARE in fact claiming the film was flawless. Otherwise, you wouldn't be constantly ignoring some stuff in the film that actually ARE flaws. I at least acknowledge there were some flaws in The Little Mermaid.
And in case you've forgotten, the TC's topic said not even Frozen beats The Little Mermaid's story, so when we're discussing whether a movie is the best, comparisons to movies is in fact inevitable. Heck, you even brought in BATB and Aladdin as comparisons yourself, so don't tell me to not compare other movies due to it being the TLM board and yet ignore you did exactly the same thing yourself, you hypocrite.
And for the record, Avatar's ranked higher as well, look how well it's actually done: It's basically been forgotten, even though it at one point had the highest box office sales.
And for the record, most people would consider some stuff in the film that happened such as Belle selling Beast out to Gaston
No one but you has ever considered that a flaw.
literally winning the blame game afterwards without even directly acknowledging she was also at fault for what happened, or some of her dismissive views of the village without any direct proof that the villagers actually were bad
Those are the two things I have mentioned over and over and over again.
And yes, you ARE in fact claiming the film was flawless.
Then you have to read better, you moron. I never CLAIMED that whatsoever.
Otherwise, you wouldn't be constantly ignoring some stuff in the film that actually ARE flaws.
Just because I don't agree with your ridiculous ideas of flaws, doesn't mean I think there aren't any flaws.
I at least acknowledge there were some flaws in The Little Mermaid.
I have never ever seen you mention any flaws. In fact, every time someone dares to criticize the movie, you jump on them, just like you jump on people who dare to say something positive about BatB. It's funny, when I disagree with someone criticizing BatB, I'm "unobjectively in love" with the movie, but when I do the same with TLM, I don't hear you complain at all. YOU are the hypocrite.
Heck, you even brought in BATB and Aladdin as comparisons yourself, so don't tell me to not compare other movies due to it being the TLM board and yet ignore you did exactly the same thing yourself, you hypocrite.
No, fncktard, the OP started a thread about the best princess movie and suggested TLM, so I replied with my suggestions BatB and Aladdin. Unless Dumbo and BatB are your favourite princess movies, there was no reason to mention them.
Now shut the fnck up, no one wants to read your stupid rants. share
No one but you has ever considered that a flaw.
Actually, there was at least one person besides me who noted this flaw: https://writingthemagic.wordpress.com/2014/02/06/belle-is-a-bitch-and-gastons-all-right-beauty-and-the-beasts-character-problems/ I can also cite WellBehavedWomenDoMakeHistory on Tumblr and even Seethem-dancing on the same site. Granted, I'm not sure writingthemagic was actually correct regarding the bit about her shoving villagers in the opening song, but she was most certainly spot on in the other areas.
I can cite specific posts in their blogs if you wish:
*http://seethem-dancing.tumblr.com/guide
*http://wellbehavedwomendomakehistory.tumblr.com/post/48368627545/30-day-disney-princess-challenge
*http://uberwekkness.tumblr.com/post/46060314767/why-belle-sucks-so-much
*http://seethem-dancing.tumblr.com/post/61540775276/littleariels-said-completely-agree-with-you
*http://wellbehavedwomendomakehistory.tumblr.com/post/66537022330/kleidausrosen-princesshannahbanana
Those are the two things I have mentioned over and over and over again.
Point taken, sorry about that.
Just because I don't agree with your ridiculous ideas of flaws, doesn't mean I think there aren't any flaws.
They're not ridiculous, and if anything I've seen PLENTY of people who thought these were flaws. What ARE ridiculous flaws is claiming that Belle was a victim of Stockholm syndrome though, and even I know she was NEVER a victim of that. Also, I'm pretty sure most people would consider forcing in a feminist agenda that was completely unnecessary to the moral of the tale, as well as removing a baking scene just because Woolverton felt that would make Belle unliberated despite it taking place at a time when Fast Food didn't exactly exist and she needed to make food to survive are NOT ridiculous ideas of flaws.
I have never ever seen you mention any flaws. In fact, every time someone dares to criticize the movie, you jump on them, just like you jump on people who dare to say something positive about BatB. It's funny, when I disagree with someone criticizing BatB, I'm "unobjectively in love" with the movie, but when I do the same with TLM, I don't hear you complain at all. YOU are the hypocrite.
I DO acknowledge flaws for TLM, actually. I cited how Ariel had been impulsive, naïve, and reckless. Those ARE flaws. And I can also cite several animation mistakes in the film like Sebastian's disappearing thimble foot, or how Ariel despite being in a dress when turning back into a mermaid was without a dress in the immediate next scene. Or how Vanessa's hair color changes from brown to black to brown again various times.
And my jumping down on people's throats was not because I thought the film was flawless or that Ariel lacked any flaws. Again, I acknowledge Ariel has plenty of flaws like naivety, impulsiveness, brashness, and disobedience to her father, all without even getting into the animation flaws, and if they cited those things, I wouldn't have any quarrel regarding that (well, save for the father bit, but only because I also realize Triton's not entirely innocent of his actions), but if they were to outright demonize Ariel, more than just point out her flaws, and even claim she has flaws that she doesn't actually have, that's where I draw a line. It's still not like how Belle's literally not being criticized much and at best, the criticisms are only about whether she's "feminist enough/liberated enough", and very rarely do they actually deal with her actual content of character. That's also why I don't comment regarding your defending The Little Mermaid at all. Actually, I would in fact be a hypocrite if I also commented that you were "unobjectively in love" with TLM when you defended it when I myself like the film, especially when the things you reject about criticisms pointed to the film actually WERE warranted.
No, fncktard, the OP started a thread about the best princess movie and suggested TLM, so I replied with my suggestions BatB and Aladdin. Unless Dumbo and BatB are your favourite princess movies, there was no reason to mention them.
Now shut the fnck up, no one wants to read your stupid rants.
You do realize that BATB is a Princess movie as well, right?
As far as Dumbo, I was citing something Walt Disney himself believed, and last I checked, TLM IS a Disney movie. Same with Fantasia. share
Unless BatB is your favourite princess movie, there was no need to bring it up, the OP didn't mention it either.
You totally have different standards when it comes to criticisms on BatB and TLM. Now go away and stop ruining this thread.
Whoever thinks Beauty and the Beast was better than The Little Mermaid is crazy. Period. Its not even close.
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