MovieChat Forums > Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (1989) Discussion > Potentially Good but flawed

Potentially Good but flawed

posted 11 years ago by plouis0128
17 replies | jump to latest

***Contains spoilers*** Quite frankly, I never truly hated this movie, I just never loved it either, and it's no doubt the weakest of the original series movies. Yes, I understand the project was snake bit on many levels, but most Trek fans know that Star Trek was always more about quality story telling than it was about dazzling special effects and sci fi gimmickry. I thought it had some potential, and did include some good character scenes, interesting messages (even if Shatner cheesed up the moral about inner suffering), and had an ending that seemed to provide a set up for the superior Star Trek VI. So aside from my smaller problems (Sulu, Chekov, Uhura and Scotty largely being pushed to the background, the feeling of TMP Deja Vu on many levels, etc) here goes...

The Humor...Anyone who know me can tell you I love a good joke, and have a good sense of humor, but humor didn't work right in this film. Yes, humor works in Star Trek when done right, it worked in ST IV because they didn't go overboard with it, the humorous lines were consistent with the characters, and much of the humor fit in with the culture shock of traveling 300 years in the past. Here it almost seems forced with one one liner after another, and many of the comedic scenes would have worked better if depicted more straight forward such as...

Sybok...I really think he wold have been accepted better if he was handled more differently, it didn't help that the revelation of his being Spock's brother was depicted almost as an Abbott and Cotello routine between Kirk and Spock. And Kirk, never knew the closet thing to a best friend he had never had a brother, it's one thing not to know wether, say, a second year Ensign under your command was an only child or not. When Kirk confronts his closet confidante about it, Spock just gives a cop out answer about not seeing the logic to say anything sooner. The could've maybe been some reference to some past off screen revelation (ie "Jim, remember me telling you about my estranged half brother..."). It's even possible McCoy would've at least have had some knowledge of Sybok after carrying Spock's Katra. Also, we have this revelation about Sarek, a well known (and beloved) supporting character, we want to know more about this past marriage to a Vulcan Princess (perhaps it was her he had pon farred with, and it was her death or their separation or divorce that lead to him marrying a human woman), but we'll never know because they cut to the chase, and all is forgotten and no one thinks to follow it up.

Klaa...This had to be the weakest commander in the history of the Klingon Empire...He goes after Kirk merely because he was bored, come on! Certainly it would have made more sense if he was a Klingon who had a personal vendetta against Kirk (redundant I know), or was some truly blood thirsty Klingon ( perhaps some sort of Klingon Bounty Hunter) heeding the words of the Klingon Ambassador's call for Kirk's head in ST IV. Then when captured is shamed by a disgraced General to apologize, hardly the actions of a true Klingon.

Finally, the God creature...Was it God they met, Satan perhaps, or some evil alien entity appearing as a God figure? We never know, I suppose that was the intent, that it was supposed to be left up to viewers interpretation, but left too little awes or clues to do so satisfactory.

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."I liked stock. Like one of those cult leaders, but with more depth

Klaa was, I think, supposed to be a weak commander. A glimpse of what lesser Klingons are like.

The creature was an silent, posing as god, but it poses the interesting question of whether our god is a creature like him, or even was him, a poser rather than the real thing.

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 11 years ago

I liked stock. . . .

The creature was an silent . . .

Your posts don't usually puzzle me quite this much. And how did your sig wind up at the top?

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Lazy + smart = efficient.

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

One of my less lucid moments.

Friends don't let friends post crazy.

I THINK I was saying "I liked Sybock" and "The creaature was an alien"

...and autcorrect helped make nonsense look truly crazy.

As for the sig... everything's just kinda uypside down these days, I guess.

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] bullett-time 11 years ago

everybody is always assuming that man was made by THE god. but what if man was created by A god. wouldn't a lot of christians be kind of pissed if they were the creation of a lesser being? personally i would L my AO. ;)

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

Personally, I think that if any of us ever meets a god of any kind, peeing our pants is a reasonable response.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

Well, yeah. That's basically what Sybock and McCoy did. Only a person of rare courage would ask for ID.
Spock, of course, observed.
I actually like the questions this raises about what is God, and whether what we know as god may have simply been a superior being abusing his power. And as a character movie, everyone behaved exactly as they would under the circumstances. The faithful believed, the commander questioned, the scientist gathered data.

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

In the series, it seemed that Kirk was more accepting of "a god" than McCoy. BUt its a good point. Personally, I believe in God, but I still tend to question everything.

There's a section in the book of Acts in the New Testament (Acts 17) where people from Berea were called "more noble" because they didn't just blindly believe what they were told, but searched the scriptures for themselves.

Seems like the "worst" of Christianity took place at a time when the scriptures were not available to the common man in a readible language.

Ranting again. Sorry.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

Kirk's reaction has less to do with whether he believed in God as verifying that this... being... was who he claimed to be. As a wise commander will do.

I was told that it's not our place to question what the religion says, but simply accept it exactly as given. I found it inconsistent with the nature of people who, supposedly, were created in God's image. But worse, I smelled a cover-up. That was the beginning of my break with organized religion.

Kirk also sensed this "God" was hiding something. I didn't find him all that inconsistent with the portrayals of God I grew up with, but would have had trouble believing he was THE God... The God of Sha Ka Ree, if you will.

For all I know, the true God might have needed a starship. But when asked, he would smile and say "there is so much about me you don't understand." Like McCoy, this God's reaction makes him no god I want anything to do with.

I think this scene doesn't get enough credit. It's the characters facing an unknown, and reacting exactly as they should.

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] Spifflock_Holmes 11 years ago

I think this scene doesn't get enough credit. It's the characters facing an unknown, and reacting exactly as they should.

I agree. My only issue with the scene is that zapping Kirk and Spock, and then admitting at once that Sybok was responsible for creating the "vision" of Sha Ka Ree, is a pretty short-sighted way to behave for a being who is within inches of being released from his prison. He should have been cleverer than that. But the behaviors of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are spot on.

----

Lazy + smart = efficient.

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

Its the same with the Star Wars Emperor. Who the heck would ever want to join that guy?

A true, evil villain should be completely attractive and charismatic.

As for the demon on Shakari, yeah, he had been working on Sybok for years, so the idea that he would turn malevolent in seconds is pretty stupid.

But its the little things that hurt this movie for me: Deck 76, Yosemite, jumping out of the way of a photon torpedo blast, Enterprise crew mutineering because Sybok made them feel better...stuff like that. It feels like a script that was undergoing constant rewrites.

"Oh no...they sent the wrong Spock!"

[–] foxboro27 11 years ago

The scene with Kirk questioning "God" is so great IMO it makes this movie worth watching and takes it up a few points in my rating.

[–] SforSmile 11 years ago

I watched this movie yesterday again and apart from some funny moments, it had the philosophical quality of a let's say newspaper horoscope and the scene where Kirk says that God is in our hearts is a good example of kitsch IMO.

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

The scene with Kirk questioning "God" is so great...

Excuse me I have a question.

It is a flawed film but still worth watching for great scenes and lines of dialogue like that.

[–] ADz-83 10 years ago

"God" is nothing more then naive, mostly low IQ or brainwashed peoples imaginations. Religion and religious explanations were useful to people many many years ago to fill in gaps of what people didn't/couldn't understand.

"God" is simply an adults version of Santa Claus, Nothing more.

[–] TheSolarSailor 10 years ago

^ What was the point of that? Why bump an old thread just for some angry pot stirring jackassery? Go be an asshat somewhere else, as your rant has nothing to do with the actual discussion.

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] ADz-83 10 years ago

I was replying to the guy who commented about God.

Please do not attempt to tell me what to do, I will post when and where I like so stop wasting your time.

[–] Yorke71 10 years ago

There's a good discussion of this movie, and specifically what went wrong with it in "The Star Trek FAQ 2.0". To your points:

The Humor...Anyone who know me can tell you I love a good joke, and have a good sense of humor, but humor didn't work right in this film.

You can blame the executives at Paramount for this. Apparently they felt that the reason Star Trek IV was so successful is that it was funny. They therefore instructed Shatner and his co-writer to add humor to the movie, which they did by cramming jokes into almost every scene. The problem was that the humor in Star Trek IV grew organically out of the "fish out of water" situations, whereas the story for "The Final Frontier" was intended to be more serious. As a result the jokes felt out of place, especially since many of them came from characters playing against type, like Scotty being something of a bumbling fool.

Sybok...I really think he wold have been accepted better if he was handled more differently, it didn't help that the revelation of his being Spock's brother was depicted almost as an Abbott and Cotello routine between Kirk and Spock.

Shatner originally intended the role for Sean Connery, but he was committed to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. His second choice was the great Max Von Sydow, but he apparently wanted too much money. They finally settled on the relatively unknown Laurence Luckinbill. Although he arguably gives the best performance in the movie, a bigger star like Connery would almost certainly have had more impact with audiences.

Finally, the God creature...Was it God they met, Satan perhaps, or some evil alien entity appearing as a God figure? We never know, I suppose that was the intent, that it was supposed to be left up to viewers interpretation, but left too little awes or clues to do so satisfactory.

This was the most controversial part of Shatner's original script. His original intention was to have the crew meet "God", who turned out to be Satan in disguise. Kirk then realizes that if there is a Satan, there must be a God too. Gene Roddenbury was outraged by the idea of Star Trek endorsing a supreme being, so it was changed to an alien posing as God. The ending was further weakened by budget difficulties. Shatner's original ending was a much more special-effects laden shootout between Kirk and a host of alien creatures, but when this proved to be too costly to pull off, the ending was reduced to Kirk dodging lightning bolts, which was anti-climactic to say the least.