MovieChat Forums > Back to the Future Part III (1990) Discussion > Plot Hole

Plot Hole

posted 8 years ago by SirLaughsalot
8 replies | jump to latest

So when they first saw the gravestone, it said that Doc was shot down, and it said he had his "beloved Clara". This meant he fell in love with and met her in a very short time before his demise.
Moving on to Marty in the past. The reason Marty and Doc were out on their to horses were because they were surveying the ravine because Marty came back because Doc died in a few days. They realize this woman has her wagon out of control, and Doc saves her before she tumbles down into the ravine. They find out she is Clara, and this is the first time they met. He falls in love with her. Marty also makes he observation that the ravine was called "Clayton Ravine" in his time because Clara supposedly fell to her death there because of the wagon, and that has now changed because Doc saved her. Doc makes the exclamation that this change to the base timeline will have serious consequences to the timeline.
So when Marty saw the gravestone, it implied Clara was saved by Doc, was alive when he died, and fell in love with him as well. Because she was saved by Doc she was able to do so. But Doc was only able to save Clara when Marty went back because he was with Marty looking at the ravine. This does not add up. That meant Marty came back to the past before Doc died and failed, but the creation of the DeLorean was done so that all changes to the timeline happened for the very first time. Clara being alive at he time of Doc's death implied Marty already went through the story of the first 2 movies but failed to save Doc, but then that makes void the first two movies in the first place because it means that Marty is going back for a second time, in which we find out he succeeds in keeping Doc alive.
Am I the only one that noticed this? This is a paradox and makes no sense at all.
If Marty is in the same timespan as when he first went to the past in the first movie in this movie, that meant he couldn't have gone back already to 1885, because going back to 1955 in the first movie showed it was happening for the first time because of the creation of the DeLorean. This makes no sense.

[–] mcp-69798 8 years ago

This is neither a paradox nor a plot hole. Marty travels to 1885 only once.

In the 1885 with Doc but without Marty (when Doc is killed by Buford), Doc greets Clara at the train station and therefore she doesn't fall into the ravine because she never rides that wagon. In the 1885 with both Doc and Marty (the events of the movie), Doc refuses to meet Clara at the station and she rides the wagon but is saved in the last moment. In the unaltered timeline that Marty remembers, she also fell into the ravine because nobody picked her up at the station.

[–] Totemkauf 8 years ago

Yuep. That's the tricky thing to realize, there are 3 different versions of 1885 , but only one is ever shown.

1)Original - we simply know the ravine was called Clayton, because she died (Per Marty's memory of history)

2)The one we Don't See - Doc arrives via the accident, meets Clara at the train station, falls in love , writes Marty the big letter for Western Union, and is killed by Buford.

3)The one we do See - this is what we see in the movie, Marty arrives (and because of it Doc doesn't meet Clara at the station, so she gets her own horses just like she did in the 1)Original. Except Doc and Marty save her.

[–] avortac4 (3669) 3 years ago

This STILL doesn't make sense, though.

You can't have 'Clayton Ravine' AND 'Clara' in the tombstone in 1955. You have to choose.

I can buy that before Doc went into the past, Clara died, and the ravine was Clayton Ravine because of that, but then the tombstone wouldn't have been there, or someone else's name would've been on it, and definitely on Clara.

But if your theory is correct, and this all changed when Doc went in the past, and Clara's name appears in Doc's tombstone, then the ravine's name should ALSO have changed.

No one is disputing the three versions of 1885, but there should be CONSISTENCY - you either have Clara-tombstone + some other name for Ravine, or Clayton Ravine and no Clara's name in the tombstone. You can't just conjoin the two timelines into one like that.

It's one or the other, and it's not tricky to realize at all. Don't try to hide behind 'being so smart only you can realize how it went', when it's really simple, and just WRONG, and is definitely a plot hole.

Marty traveling to 1885 "only once" has nothing to do with anything - no matter how many times Marty travels to whatever year has no bearance on what the name of the ravine is, or what the name on the tombstone is. You can't have Clara's name on BOTH, only one or the other, because 'Clayton Ravine' means she DIED, and thus couldn't be named in the tombstone - and her name in tombstone means she LIVED, and thus ravine couldn't be named after her.

Now, maybe both of you understanD? IT IS A PLOT HOLE.

Q.E.D.

[–] JoeCinema (89) 3 years ago

The ravine is never mentioned in 1955. It can be any name you want.

[–] mcp7 (143) 3 years ago

You are incorrectly assuming it is still named Clayton Ravine in that timeline. All we know is Marty remembers the name and the story about the dead teacher from when he was a kid, but that's because time travelers retain memories from erased timelines. For the same reason, he still remembers his "loser" family from the original timeline.

The ravine in the "dead Doc 1885 timeline" is most likely still named Shonash Ravine.

[–] VanillaLimeCoke 8 years ago

One thing I don't get is that how the fan site says Doc originally got shot on Saturday but in this film Marty intervenes.

But Marty is nowhere near when Buford prepares to shoot doc in the back. Clara then intervenes saying that they're dancing which Buford decides to dance with her and try to take the $80 out on her. Marty only intervenes when Buford prepares to shoot doc in the head, not the back!!!!!!!!

[–] Totemkauf 8 years ago

The time in the movie that we see Buford about to shoot Doc in the back might not be the same as in the 2nd timeline, just a coincidental moment.
Remember, Marty's arrival probably set off a lot of chain reactions changing the way the week played out. Different events would cause Doc to be in different places at different times. Maybe Buford never even went to the festival, it was only because of 'Clint Eastwood's' recent arrival that Buford was more angry about it all than usual.

[–] McFly_2015 8 years ago

It is brought up in the scene with the 1885 Mayor; he asks Doc to pick up the new schoolteacher and reveals her name to be Clara. Doc initially agrees but then decides not to meet her once he finds out they fell in love in an alternate timeline. If Marty weren’t there he would have met her.

With respect to Buford, events would have still happen but play out differently;
He blamed Doc for the horse throwing a shoe and claimed Doc owed him $80. In the version of the film we see, he tells Doc once Doc saves Marty. Maybe without Marty, Doc runs into Buford in the saloon or Buford sneaks the gun into the saloon and shoots doc there (as Marty wasn’t there to save him).