This film is non-canon - Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare (1991) Discussion

[–] skizzie72-1 14 years ago

u act like the one following this is better?

IM RUNNIN THIS MONKEY FARM NOW FRANKENSTEIN! AND I WANNA KNOW WHAT THE F&$K UR DOIN WITH MY TIME!

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[–] BaronVictor 14 years ago

Well it is... both New Nightmare and FvJ are.

Who's Featherhead? He sounds exceptionally dangerous.

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[–] raymilesprime 14 years ago

As far is I'm concerned Freddy Vs Jason was right on the money.

Freddy was scary. He wasn't completely free of humour but didn't lose that scary seemingly all-powerful edge until he met his match in Jason.

Freddy comes back in the most satisfying and least unlikely means in any sequel in the whole series. A way that he has to apply effort and time to, yet as soon as you know she remembered the cop say his name you knew there was no stopping it.

The acting from the teens in this movie was a definite step up from both franchises, as is the lot of the dialogue (just don't watch the deleted scenes, the dialogue is shockingly bad).

The battles between Freddy and Jason were all great, and each character's strengths were very well utilised without having to compromise in order to prevent one character clearly outmatching the other. Also Freddy being able to torment Jason in his dream is one of the best nightmare sequences in the series, Jason looks truly tormented and helpless in his nightmare.

They were actually able to use Jason as an effective character that helped develop the plot, rather than have him as just a boring characterless lump that goes from slaughter to slaughter until the movie ends, like in every Friday The 13th movie, making Freddy Vs Jason the best film in the FT13th franchise as well.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

They're all canon except New Nightmare.

A town COULD get back to normal in 4 years.

I've thought about it and I theorize that with all the turmoil that was going on during the FD era, property and land was probably CHEAP in SPringwood and encouraged a lot of people to move there. I mean a lot can happen in 4 years.

And we don't know exactly when FvJ took place.

I think FvJ should have taken place before FD.

The past doesn't exist and the future is only an illusion.

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[–] skizzie72-1 14 years ago

very true,man. i saw the time line and all the films are set slightly in the alternate future from where ever they were released

IM RUNNIN THIS MONKEY FARM NOW FRANKENSTEIN! AND I WANNA KNOW WHAT THE F&$K UR DOIN WITH MY TIME!

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

For ME the timeline is,

part 1 1981

part 2 1986

part 3 1987

part 4 1988

part 5 1989

part 6 2001

The past doesn't exist and the future is only an illusion.

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[–] Wolf1880 14 years ago

as far as I'm concerned the canon goes like this

Friday The 13th (1980)
Friday The 13th part 2 (1981)
Friday The 13th part 3 (1982)
Friday The 13th part 4 (1984 The Final Chapter)/A Nightmare on Elm St. (1984)
Friday The 13th part 5 (1985 A New Beginning)/A Nightmare on Elm St. part 2 (1985 Freddy's Revenge)
Friday The 13th part 6 (1986 Jason Lives)
A Nightmare on Elm St part 3 (1987 The Dream Warriors)

Friday The 13th part 7 (1988 The New Blood)/A Nightmare on Elm St part 4 (1988 The Dream Master)
Friday The 13th part 8 (1989 Jason Takes Manhattan)/A Nightmare on Elm St part 5 (1989 The Dream Child)

Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare (1991 Freddy dies supposedly)

8 to 10yrs pass
Jason Goes To Hell takes place in 1999

Freddy Vs Jason takes place between roughly 2000 & 2008

The Goverment Captures Jason in 2008 (According to Jason X film)

2yrs pass
Jason X
continues in 2010 and Jason can't be killed and is Cryogenically Frozen for 445yrs in space

Jason X contines to takes place in 2455 for the rest of the movie

the films that have / between them....just happened at same time in different parts of the world as far as i'm concerned. This way all the Jason movies and all the Freddy movies can happen. Jason Goes To Hell and Freddy Vs Jason can happen and even..... <sigh> yes even... <mutters> jason x can happen..

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

NOES 1 definitly does NOT take place in 1984 like a lot of people wanna think.

We know part 5 takes place in 1989 b/c of the graduation tassels. Part 4 is about a year before that *1988* part 3 is about a year before that *1987* and in part 3 Nancy mentions the events ofpart 1 taking place 6 years ago, putting part 1 in 1981, and part 2 was about a year before part 3 *1986* and in part the events of part 1 were mentioned as being 5 years ago AGAIN putting part one in 1981.

I really dont see how people mess this up it's really simple.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] RobBase086-1 14 years ago

Yes it is simple and I understand it!

Dedicated to USA UP ALL NIGHT and the fans! www.usaupallnight.webs.com/

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[–] NowhereToHide 12 years ago

Wolf1880's canon is SHOCKINGLY wrong. Friday the 13th part 2-4 all happen within a week of each other, while parts 5 and 6 are probably 5 years after the previous film... Nightmare 2 is 5 years after Nightmare 1.

Oh, and I believe Friday 2 is five years after Friday 1, which I believe is supposed to take place in 79.

Friday 1 - 1979
Friday 2, 3 and 4 = 1984.
Friday 5 - ~1989.
Friday 6 - ~1994.

After that, it's up to interpretation except where they are specifically stated, like Jason X.

Nightmare on Elm Street is a little sketchier from what I remember, but part 2 is supposed to be 5 years after part 1.

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[–] herbstzeitlose 12 years ago

"both New Nightmare and FvJ are."

Agreed.

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[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 14 years ago

"Lisa Zane's character is over 40"

Actually, in the original theatrical print of the movie (which ran 100 minutes, but was mysteriously cut down to 88 minutes for home video for reasons nobody seems to know), Maggie is introduced in her apartment, awoken by her mother for her 28th birthday. This scene eventually found its way into the Television Version of the movie.

But the fact of the matter is that "Freddy vs. Jason" not only acknowledges "Freddy's Dead", (showing footage of Freddy's beatdowns from the film), but the writers of FvsJ, Shannon & Swift, said their starting point was not to ignore any of the films from the Nightmare or Friday series (other than "New Nightmare" because it doesn't take place within the timeline of the formal series).

So like it or not, Freddy's Dead is canon.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

If she's Freddy's daughter HOW could she just be 28?

The past doesn't exist and the future is only an illusion.

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[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 14 years ago

If Freddy died in 1974 (which is up for grabs depending on who involved in the films you talk to), then Maggie being born in the early 70s fits. She's like 3 or 4 in the flashbacks sequences.

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[–] theboycopeland 14 years ago

I just watched and I'm sure that in the classroom scene it is stated that she was taken into care in 1966. Making her mid thirties in the movie, which looks about right.

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[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 14 years ago

The dates on the chalkboard are actually nonsense nonsequital. It has no baring on anything. Again, Maggie is 28 whether she looks it or not.

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[–] lessongive-1 14 years ago

I have to disagree, the only films in-canon are 1-5. It was established in the former films that Freddy could only use his powers against the Elm street children. The only reason he could get to the next gen was because Kristen pulled Alice into her dream and gave Alice her power. The only access Freddy had to the next gen was through Alice. This film goes on the basis that Freddy can attack any teen as long as there in Springwood. The second problem with Freddy's dead is that it establishes Nancy's house as Freddy's. If this film was in-canon that would mean that the Thompsons who had there son murdered by Freddy (deleted scene from nightmare 1) lead a mob to kill Freddy. Then Donald Thompson buried him then decided that the best thing to do would be to buy Freddy's house and move his wife and (baby daughter) Nancy into the house. Talk about crappy writing. As much as I love FVJ it follows the same guidelines as Freddy's Dead about him being able to kill anyone, which would disqualify it to.

Now that the remake didn't make what New Line was hoping for. I would love to see either FVJ2 or follow H20 and ignore the latter films and do a sequel to 5 dealing with Jacob as a teen and Freddy returns.

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[–] kingaliencracker 12 years ago

It was established in the former films that Freddy could only use his powers against the Elm street children.

This is not true. Freddy used his powers against Marge in the first film, against Jesse and all the other teens in the 2nd film, and against Neil and Don in the third film.

It was the fourth film that somehow made it a "rule" that Freddy could ONLY haunt the dreams of the Elm Street kids.

The only access Freddy had to the next gen was through Alice.

Yes but in the fifth film Freddy can access others with Alice's son. Since 10 years pass between the fifth film and this one, one may presume that Freddy found another means to access further children.

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[–] The_Keeper_of_Angela_Baker 14 years ago

See my post above yours.

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[–] boisv 14 years ago

This movie may suck, but it is far more canon than FvJ or anything else that came after. I always considered this the end of the Nightmare canon. New Nightmare is it's own thing, and FvJ is absolute crap that doesn't really connect with either the Nightmare of Friday series. FvJ is an offshoot, a fun "what if".

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

They are all canon except New Nightmare.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] GreenGoblinsOckVenom86 14 years ago

Well this movie tells more about Freddy's past than any of the other Nightmare movies.

Kelloway: Doyle, get in the car.
Doyle: But I ordered Onion Rings.
Kelloway: Doyle!

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[–] raymilesprime 14 years ago

Yeah, but none of the flashbacks really gave away anything particularly interesting. He got bullied in school? Abused by Alice Cooper? Killed his spouse? None of it is really surprising or anything I couldn't have assumed happened anyway.

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[–] Snickg78 14 years ago

This one makes sense if you look at it as a dream from the time they enter Springwood to the end.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

Some people choose to ignore certain ones just b/c they don't like them, BUT that doesn't change the fact they are still canon.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] HamsterRecon 14 years ago

Unfortunately this movie is canon even though it is possibly one of the worst movies ever made and allowed into theaters and such. Supposedly in the short span of 4 years the town manages to rebuild itself by houses beeing cheaper, there being alot of jobs offered here so people will move there. Also anyone who still has nightmares gets but into the mental institution.

The only film that is non-canon is "New Nightmare" but it is set in what is supposed to be a "real world" reality.

Anyway I think we can both just agree that this movie was horrible and screws up everything. I mean why the hell and is it even possible to kill off every teenager in a town? I mean engough time has passed since the original shouldn't he be after the teenagers parents who were teenagers at the time of the original? And then the dream demon, oh no. They just fcked up! And to think that this movie supposedly was going to kill Freddy off?

Signature.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

Freddy had no interest in killing the teens parents *unless they got in his way of course* In the first place it's all about REVENGE, and one of the most horrible feelings is losing a child so that's what Freddy went after, their CHILDREN, not them. And also Freddy's thing is killing teens not adults *unless you count Freddy's Nightmares.*

Question your prejudices.

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[–] skyboy3 14 years ago

The movie is a bit daffy in parts but at least it does try to explain a few things the other films left out/skip over.Like how does a child killer who gets burned alive come back and kill someone in their dreams.Why do all these movies take place in Springwood?Didn't any of the parents and kids ever move away,especialy after the first 12 or so kids die/get murdered.

Besides,it's not like building the mythology was ever the main point of the films,it was to make money and sell Freddy stuff.It's the same reason we still get new Saw films even though they have long since ceased to be original,entertaining or scary.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

?"Didn't any of the parents and kids ever move away,especialy after the first 12 or so kids die/get murdered."

I think that that wouldbe a good premis for a sequel, finding there are OTHER kids of the original parents.

I THOUGHT originally Kristen had a brother or sister.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] fluffchop 9 years ago

All Saw films are excellent. The fact you have such an interest in this Freddy crap supports your use of the moronic part of your brain.

---
Scientologists love Narnia, there's plenty of closet space.

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[–] HamsterRecon 14 years ago

What I meant was since during the first film the most the children of elm street were teenagers so I would think the remaining elm street children he was after would mainly all be adults now. Anyways the last of the Elm street kids was killed off in part 4(well at least it said in pt3 joey kincade and the others were the last ones)and then freddy spread to the other teenagers through fear. But still the whole wiping out all the teenagers in a town is just fcking stupid and unless you really want to stretch the truth(which your supposed to) it sets up a continuity error for Freddy vs. Jason

Signature.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

Fredd obviously like killing teens,so that's what he did, the first group was for revenge, BUT after that it was just for fun, and for the power the souls gave him.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] Fat_Lives_Matter 14 years ago

But Superman III IS canon! It sported the same creative team of the first two Supes films. The fourth, however, can be tossed into the garbage.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

All the movies in the NOES series *except New Nightmare* are canon, it doesn't matter if some people don't like a certain movie or say it sucks, you can't say it's non-canon on those basis.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] raymilesprime 13 years ago

---------------
All the movies in the NOES series *except New Nightmare* are canon, it doesn't matter if some people don't like a certain movie or say it sucks, you can't say it's non-canon on those basis.
---------------

I'm not disregarding it on that basis, I'm saying it's not canon based on the huge plotholes caused if FVJ is also canon, so I think FVJ counts as a retcon of Freddy's Dead just like Halloween H20 retcons all the Halloween films after 2.

If Freddy really did wipe out the entire town then there's no way he could have been 'forgotten' like he was at the start of FVJ, unless the authorities euthanised the entire population of the town.

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[–] anthonydedrickjr 13 years ago

I'm not sure I understand your point. He was forgotten about because any kid who dreamed about him was put on Hypnocil. Now, maybe what you're trying to say is how can someone be forgotten about if there isn't anyone there to forget about him. But remember, he didn't wipe out the entire town. He wiped out the children. Also, Freddy starts off FvJ in hell. So it clearly is established that it and the movie proceeding is canon. The issue is what was the reason for the repopulated Springwood to drug teens with Hypnocil, unless at some point between the movies Freddy was able to kill a teen here and there. Thus causing hysteria and the events of Freddy vs Jason

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[–] anthonydedrickjr 13 years ago

And actually, if you go to the the companion website for the series, it has a timeline that says just that. Between '99 and '03, Freddy came back, killed which caused for the parents and town to drug anyone who ever mentioned Freddy and to strike his name from any and all records

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[–] Martha_Samara_Saxon 14 years ago

I think everything in this movie besides Freddy's character(and the comedy bits that came with him) was great. So I disagree that it adds nothing of value to the franchise. If you want to say a Freddy movie contributed nothing to the franchise in any way, then 'New Nightmare' is your culprit.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

I LOVE all the movies BUT if I had to say a partidular movie contributed very little, I'd say it would be part 4, even though part 4 is one of my favorites, it didn't really add anything, other than Alice collecting her friends powers. I think 4 was just made for the hard-core Freddy fans who wanted to see classic Freddy at his best.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] Martha_Samara_Saxon 14 years ago

4 is also one of my favorites, but I don't know I think it contributed. New Nightmare really sets me off though. It really contributed the least out of all the movies. New Nightmare's Freddy wasn't even really Freddy. It was a demon who took on the form of Freddy. It did not create a new story or elaborate more on Freddy's story at all.

It was NOES 1, 2, and 5 combined, but without the new Freddy bits. The monster in New Nightmare wasn't even Freddy. It didn't tell the story of Freddy at all. The little we learned about the creature is that it was evil and it took on the form of Freddy.

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[–] toking65000 14 years ago

I like the idea and concept of New Nightmare of it being a movie within a movie within a movie, etc. But I don't watch it too often . I find myself watching parts 4 and 5 the most, I think 4 just kinda steadly moves the story along. B/c I conside parts 3, 4 and 5 the TRUE Krueger story. Well I guess parts 1, 3, 4, and 5. And 2 and 6 are great stand-alones.

I think parts 3 and 5 can be enjoyed back to back.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] Martha_Samara_Saxon 14 years ago

I like the idea and concept of New Nightmare of it being a movie within a movie within a movie, etc. But I don't watch it too often .

I liked it, but I was put off by alot of things in that movie. There was just a lot of things that I didn't like. Especially the part where Freddy isn't really Freddy. I don't watch it very often, but this is because back in the day when I used to watch horror movies as I fell asleep(or tried to) this would always be one of the NOES movies I'd find the most. So I was constantly watching it when I was younger so I think that's why 4 is one of the most interesting to me right now.

I find myself watching parts 4 and 5 the most, I think 4 just kinda steadly moves the story along. B/c I conside parts 3, 4 and 5 the TRUE Krueger story. Well I guess parts 1, 3, 4, and 5. And 2 and 6 are great stand-alones.

I think parts 3 and 5 can be enjoyed back to back.

I agree, I consider parts 1, 3, 4, and 5 the true Krueger story. I liked the story with Freddy's daughter in part 6 though. I think for now on I'm going to consider New Nightmare not part of the Elm Street series. Since it wasn't a story about the real Freddy and [according to everyone else] it's not really part of the NOES series than I don't think I'll include it anymore. I just discovered yesterday that it is my least favorite in the series. I finally pinpointed exactly what I disliked about it. I still think New Nightmare contrbuted the least because it added nothing to Freddy's storyline. The creature wasn't even really Freddy.

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

I include New Nightmare BUT, it's not part of the continuity of 1-6 and Freddy vs Jason. Even though a lot of people say FvJ isn't canon, I think it is.

I know a lot of fans woudl wanna kill me for saying this, but I'm not actually a huge fan of part 1, I love it and it's a great movie, it's just not my favorite of the series like it is to most fans. I think the movies REALLY start getting good at part 3 on.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] raymilesprime 13 years ago

I personally think Part 3 is far superior to the original

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

Well I liked part 3 b/c it was more immaginative like dreams really are and while part 1 had SOME fantasy in it, it was more just flat out murders in bloody styles.

Part 3 is when Freddy took off and started becoming his OWN character.

Question your prejudices.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Dream_Demon 13 years ago

To me, this film is canon because unless New Line itself says it isn't canon, it is still canon.

Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger

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[–] toking65000 13 years ago

All the movies are canon *except New Nightmare* whether people like it or not.

I hate it when fans try to make up their own rules.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] dpac1977 12 years ago

shut up geek....

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[–] ekmyers 12 years ago

The sequels were cash-ins that tried to elongate a premise that ended with the climax of the first film. Thus, only the original movie is "canon." Everything else that follows are concepts that contradict one another and find progressively sillier ways to add fuel to a tank that was sputtering dry (creatively, not monetarily).

Anyone arguing otherwise need look no further than the fact that the town (nor the schools or characters within them!) seem realistically affected by what is an ongoing series of teen deaths with a common cause (which only Part 3 touches on, but within an isolated environment rather than on a state-wide or even national level); hair, clothing and trends match the year of each film's release, not a theoretical timeline put forth by fanboys on the internet; and the never-ending stream of "definitive" deaths for Freddy ("Bury him in hallowed ground!" [?] "Show him his reflection!" [??] "Return him to his mother's womb!" [???] "WEAR THESE MAGICAL 3-D GLASSES!" [???????!!!!!!]) are summarily and inexplicably undone within five minutes of each successive sequel.

And trying to seriously justify the timelines is ridiculous, because they DON'T line up, they DON'T make sense, and they will NEVER line up with the FRIDAY the 13th movies, either. The writers didn't care. The studio didn't care. Nobody cared! Trying to force it all to make sense in an attempt to justify those creative deserts known as "ELM STREET sequels" is like trying to justify why the synoptic Gospels don't line up. Oh, wait. Ooops...

A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET is a self-contained film. Everything else is essentially fan fic funded by a studio who didn't care about the series except for how many toys, video games and Dokken records it could sell you.

ekm
Writer/Director -- ROULETTE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1294794/combined

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[–] robsea32 12 years ago

Yeah, I agree -- realistically speaking, this is the case. The series was a cash cow plain and simple and that was obviously the motivation for the sequels, at least it was a higher motivating factor than maintaining continuity between movies.

Still, it is quite fun the speculate.

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[–] toking65000 12 years ago

Again they are ALL canon. You can pretend like certain ones don't exist if you want.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] ekmyers 12 years ago

Again they are ALL canon. You can pretend like certain ones don't exist if you want.

con·tra·dic·tion [kon-truh-dik-shuhn]
noun
1. the act of contradicting; gainsaying or opposition.
2. assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial.
3. a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous.
4. direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency.
5. a contradictory act, fact, etc.

ekm
Writer/Director -- ROULETTE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1294794/combined

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[–] toking65000 12 years ago

um ok

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] ekmyers 12 years ago

"Um okay"? Read what you wrote. It doesn't make sense.

ekm
Writer/Director -- ROULETTE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1294794/combined

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[–] toking65000 12 years ago

I dont get what you are saying really. Sorry I'm missing something.

I'm just saying I think ALL the movies are canon, sure maybe some things don't match up, but I still think they are canon.

I KNOW there are those who dismiss movies as canon, IF they have different writters or if they think a movie SUCKS, but I think they are all related. All but New Nightmare which is a REAL LIFE movie supposedly, it takes place outside the NOES universe.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] toking65000 12 years ago

Ah, such an intelligent, intellectual contribution to the discussion. You should be a professional debater.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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