MovieChat Forums > Not Without My Daughter (1991) Discussion > Get it through your heads people! The re...

Get it through your heads people! The real version

posted 19 years ago by njg34
67 replies | jump to latest

I'm afraid no one is qualified to say anything about the truth of this film unless they have been to Iran and can attest to whether this film portrays reality about iranians and iran

NOT THE THEOCRATIC EVIL ISLAMIC REGIME
NOT FUNDAMENTALISTS WHO HURT THEIR WIVES

But ordinary Iranians and the country Iran. This film is so riddled with inaccuracies and mis-representations for anyone who has travelled to Iran that it is uncanny.

eg

1) Tehran does not have sheep roaming its streets. Its a sprawling ugly metropolis, with smog clogging up its streets, and it hasn't had sheep since about 1890. Why the hell the filmmakers have chosen a street in rural Israel to film this movie, and use this village to represent Tehran is beyond all reasonable cognition. Oh no its not, its because they wanted people to think Iran is a backward country full of uncultured peasants living in mud houses.

2) Almost no one speaks actual Farsi in this film. So even the simplest accuracy required in the film is missing.

3) Iranians are universally known to be warm to foreigners. It comes as part of a rich historic culture combined with the fact that they know hey are perceived to be West-haters (everyone wants them to be shown as this, including their own government and the Western governments), and they want to change that. Americans who know Iranians know that 99% of Iranians are shockingly warm to Americans. There is no country in the world which loves America and its ideals more than Iran, and this film is exactly the kind of propaganda which would have you feel otherwise. What everyone (Iran's government, US government etc...) wants you to believe, basically.

4) Some really strange inventions in the film and the book. Like when Moody told his wife something about Iranians having to take showers after intercourse. WHAT THE HELL? If you're going to make something up, at least make it a bit less laughable.

5) Yes Iranians have to wear scarves and manteaus which DOES INFRINGE ON THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS, I AGREE. And they are treated by the government/officials as second class in many many situations. But one major point about Iranian culture actually REVERSED in this film is that Iranian women are the boss of the household. When it comes to household issues the woman is usually dominant in Iranian culture, and Iranian women are much stronger and empowered than in most other countries in the world. You have to draw a line between the government and the population, people!

6) Why are almost all Iranians in this film brimming with animosity and anger? I just don't get it. Take it from me, Iranians are warm and loving, ESPECIALLY to FOREIGNERS!

One question for anyone who liked this film. How come looking at the credits there is not a single Iranian in the main cast, when there are SO MANY IRANIAN EXPATRIATES WHO ARE AGAINST THE ISLAMIC REGIME IN IRAN? Thats right, because they perceived this film to be just purely racist, with no political leniencies. Just racist.

So thank you to this film for uniting all Iranians of all political and religious idealogies: Pro-Islamic, anti-Islamic, pro-Shah, anti-Shah, Communist, capitalist, socialist, national socialist, muslim, jewish, christian, zoroastrian, bahai. All religious and political divisions of Iranians can be united by the racism that this film portrays against them.

Its the Nazi propaganda film of the modern age.

Oh yeah one more thing, this film IS racist! It DOESN'T overtly insult or mock Iranians. That would be OK for me because it would be obvious for anyone watching. No, the reason why it has some of you duped into thinking its not racist is because you just DON'T KNOW! All its racism is in the form of insinuations and subtle propaganda which feeds negative stereotypes. That is the worse form of racism because ordinary "normal-minded" people fall for it. And that is/was the basis of the aforementioned nazi propaganda and how it eventually led to the persecution of Jews by an entire country under the Nazi Holocaust. DONT LET IT HAPPEN TO YOU!

[–] Dolphin157 19 years ago

I'm sure that Betty Mahmoody is qualified to say something about this film. In my opinion, her husband was just a jacka** in general, regardless of his religion or the country he came from.

[–] njg34 19 years ago

Did you read my post? Unfortunately you peepz dont realize how poisonous this film is.

This is not just a tale of a woman "fighting against the odds" against her husband etc..., every single point of the film has inaccuracies, misrepresentations but mostly flat out lies about Iran.

Yeah she is qualified to write a film about her experience but why does she make up so much BS when it comes to Iranians' social interactions, interaction with foreigners, language they speak, look of tehran, anger and animosity, cold nature, made up rituals and traditions, homogenous religious beliefs, media-fed stereotype etc....

Its in the subtleties people!

Speak to one Iranian and let him/her tell you about this film.

[–] njg34 19 years ago

Hateful Propaganda doesn't have to be given to you straight and in-your-face!

The best propaganda messes around with your subconscious, and you don't even realize it. Thats what I'm saying.

[–] 19 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Dolphin157 19 years ago

<why does she make up so much BS when it comes to Iranians' social interactions, interaction with foreigners, language they speak, look of tehran, anger and animosity, cold nature, made up rituals and traditions, homogenous religious beliefs>

As far as the anger, animosity and cold nature are concerned, maybe Betty witnessed these things while with Moody's family. That doesn't mean that she thinks ALL Iranians are that way, especially since some Iranians helped her. All people are different

[–] luv2write92647 19 years ago

Settle the hell down! This movie was based on a novel about one woman's experience. That the movie depicted sheep in Tehran is hardly something to get yourself worked up over. Since when did you see a movie that wasn't unrealistic in certain aspects??? In the book, the people she lived with did speak primarily Farsi. And not all of the Iranians portrayed in the movie were brimming with animosity as you say. There were people she was close to, people she respected and trusted, people who helped her. Since she experienced it and not YOU, your post is completely irrelevant.

[–] Tvfreak_ 19 years ago

thank you njg34, Betty did not have to make monster out of Iranians beacuse of her husband.

[–] RiseUpMegalon 8 years ago

The Iranians did a good job of making themselves into monsters in 1979

[–] mayninethnineteenseventyone 19 years ago

I don't think it has much to do about what race are people. This can even happen in America. We all know it has. However it is much common among the different republics that hava a hurt relationship with the USA. It would be very naive to believe that in the Orient life is good as the comment above make me believe they are. If you or a friend of yours visited Tehran, and were able to see the romantic side (ruling lover's love out, if you know what I mean) you should not let that romantic picture blur you. I would not worry about the sheep on the picture nor the absence of Farsi on the film. About the continuos hatred from Iranians in the picture I must remind you that IF you watch closely it come from the family of a very traditional patrialcal family with only ONE relative paying to much attention to his wife's opinion which was not acceptable by them. In America child abuse was legal until 60s or 70s' so was a husband trying to correct a wife with "traditional" methods. It is still legal there( read " A Child Called It"). I would not be to worry about the fact that Iranians are not part of the cast.

When I was 21 I married a foreigner we were a happy couple, a normal couple with normal arguments. For our honeymoon we went to his country, everything was fine. When I came back this movie was playing in theaters. I didn't want to go see it. Two years later his father became sick and we needed to take over the business for a couple of months to settle things. By then I have had a daughter who was six months old. Immeately after we arrived I was told to shove USA. His family was horrible with me. I mean HORRIBLE. I was constantly being beat up and locked up after I tried to hire an attorney. I lived like this for a year. This has been the most intense experience that I have ever lived. The worst thing is the in my ex's country he had not broken the law. After all he had said that I could leave but I would have to leave my daughter behind. When I made it to the states I did exactly the same thing the pope does when he arrives to a country kiss the ground. Needless to say I divorced the guy I have full power of attorney of my daughter. I can not say that it was not my fault. After all you are supposed to know who you married and I feel somewhat responsible for what happened, as so do battered wives. If only I would have seen through him. My country USA, gave me full power of attorney of my daughter but he was not jailed even though the kidnapping was proved to have happened. His defense in court was that he said I could come to that US, but of course by myself NOT WITH MY DAUGTHER. I wil always live in fear because as I once said to the judge:" Maybe, you can gurantee that he does not take the girl out in an American Airlines flight or A US Airways flight but you can not gurantee he will not take the girl on a private jet out of the USA as his fugitive brother left.

[–] mayninethnineteenseventyone 19 years ago

Also try to remember that as the picture says in the ending "some events have been changed for dramatic purposes". I lived this same experience. But Im sure that if I made a movie it would be so boring.

[–] desertstar-1 19 years ago

im with you on this one. as a hispanic american citizen who has been dating a Persian for 3 yrs...id have to say that persians are sweethearts. I havent seen this movie nor desire to see it after the reviews made on it. When my boyfriend introduced me to his family 2 and a half years ago, they welcomed me into their home and treated me like their own daughter...which they still do to this day. i lived with him and his family for 1 year, learned farsi and can say that they have treated me better than my own Latino family.all races are evil, all religions are as well. there is no perfect religion and there is no perfect race. but to be honest with you, the persians i have met, were the most beautiful people, inside and out. so screw this hollywood movie. its basically the same thing they to do arabs: always depicting them as terrorists in movies and with anger problems...which is totally not true. my sister is married to an egyptian and they are the sweetest people. what crock of crap this movie is..thank god i didnt see it. thanks for the reviews.

heidy

[–] Tvfreak_ 19 years ago

Anyone who actually thinks there are sheeps in Tehran (lol), anyone who wan't to see how wrongly Iranians have been portrayed in this movie and anyone who want's to see the real Iran should go here & see the pictures for themselves: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=197275&page=1

[–] desertstar-1 19 years ago

great pics of my man's country! is the headscarf mandatory>? just wondering in case i ever go there. but yeah those girls are wearing the headscarf very loosely and they have tight clothes!

[–] Tvfreak_ 19 years ago

Yeah it is mandatory but only beacuse Iran is ruled by Islamo-facists that don't care about what the people thinks!

And as you see yourself we do not care about what the Mullahs say, to us it's just a load of BS!

[–] proudperson 18 years ago

An Australian women had her daughter kiddnapped by her father (who is a Lebanese). She is not allowed to bring her back home. Not even the Lebanese police force go into that part of the city - where the girl lives now. There are many stories like this and like the one in "Not without my daughter". In Saudi Arabia (and other muslim countries), a women can't do anything without her husbands permission. Honor killings still occur, meaning that on a mere rumor a girl, women or even an elderly women (it happened in Pakistan) can be killed by the brother, uncle, father, son, cousin etc.

It does not mean that all of those in the middle east, north africa or muslim countries are backward, evil etc but there is a culture of treating women and girls badly. Even in western countries, some married women are battered and mis treated but that is not the general culture and women have recource - that is they can go to court and divorse. Even if a man is abusive, in the muslim culture, he will likely keep the kids and "sell" them to his friends or some other business associate - there was a documentary about it, it happened i think in Jordon.

desertstar-1 , you may have had a good experience with those around you, but it doesn't always turn out that way for everyone. To say emphatically you will not see it is an ignorant statement as you are saying to us, watch it and then explain it to me, (even at the risk of propaganda), rather than watching it for yourself and making up your own mind. It's like the group mentality of any revolution. The few who are leaders brainwash those who are the followers who don't have any will or education to think for themselves.

[–] tking-6 19 years ago

Not going to into a long tirade about racism and such or about one sided stories.
Its like people are calling the lady a liar.People complaining about how Iran is dipicted in 2005 about a movie made in 1991 about events in 1984.Does anyone even remember if sheeps were in the streets in 1984. Were some of you even alive or over 5 years old at that time? Does it matter?
The shower issue was not made up. It wasnt that iranians have to take a shower but muslims have to take a shower,because you have to be clean before prayer.Not normal wudu but after sex ...Im sure people get the picture.
The movie also dipicted a not so bright woman. Letting things happen that Im not so sure a normal "mother" would let happen. Im a parent but a man so maybe my feelings of knocking somebody out if they touched my child is just a male reaction. but saying a true story is racist is stupid. Like saying roots is racist to whites at that time.
quick note. Any one caught the mentioning of US supplying Iraq with weapons .

[–] Tvfreak_ 19 years ago

There wasnt sheeps in the streets of Tehran in 1984, 1964 or even 1924!

[–] cassandraluna 19 years ago

5) Iranian women are the boss of the household. When it comes to household issues the woman is usually dominant in Iranian culture

Yeah, great, that´s really waht a women want. Be the Boss of the household! I think I have to move to this country!

[–] negin_n 19 years ago

This post is coming from someone who was 2 at 1984, and spent the first 20 years of her life in Tehran.

Although i agree the movie is racist in many many cases, but I would also point out that the story was taken place at 1982. I am not saying there used to be ships in the streets of tehran (and for god's sake, who would the director fool with that airport scene! can anyone imagine that airport for a capital with 12 million population!!!!), but the dress code restrictions in those days were far far worst than what you may see in the pictures on the internet. I actually sympathized with the scene that Betty was attacked by the male/female officers on the road because she was not covering herself "properly".

[–] CaliforniaMountainSnake 19 years ago

We're watching this movie in my history class right now as supposedly a fair representation of life in the Middle East (yeah right!) but I have to agree with most of the things people are saying about this movie.

First, I have many Muslim friends from the Middle East who have told me their own accounts and I trust them enough to believe them. Second, a friend's fiancee is from Iran and he and I have talked about the history of Iran under the Shaw and Ayatollah and whatnot so I believe his accounts also.

This movie is propaganda based on what was happening at the time. If you guys look at the date it was made in 1991; it was obviously made to raise patriotism and anti-Muslim sentiment regardless of what country they were from (my fellow students seem to believe that the Middle East is one country and that all the different sects of Islam are the same).

It is also racist to certain degrees. The way I have been viewing it is that the men seem to be entirely oppressive and overbearing which I don't believe for a second. While this may easily be the case in some households, there are numerous households (especially at a time when Western thought such as the NOW movement and other feminist ethics were beginning to be whispered quietly) that probably treated the women fine. Even if they were still treated as second-class citizens (which is plausible depending on the indoctrination of men/women there or different interpretations of the Qur'an), they were not abused as Betty was in the movie. My friend from Tehran has told me that he never remembers anything like that happening (at least not normally) during the early 80's under the Ayatollah.

The chadors and other head pieces are a part of Islamic culture and are often showed as a sign of, well, respect. While chadors start to lean on the wtf? are they doing side of the burka (if that makes any sense) that movement is dying down in Iran. As for the headpieces, I think they're actually pretty (although that may seem a bit biased coming from someone who has never been forced to wear one, my Muslim friend in London decided to start wearing one a few years ago because they thought they were a better interpretation of her sexuality and role of Islam (which is not to say that she wanted to be beaten or treated like dirt as this movie would have you think)). And yes, I too sympathize with negin_n when they state that Betty properly would have been attacked for not covering herself properly but as part of a foreigner, one should at least try to respect other countries' ethics or laws.

"Not Without My Daughter" is a racist film that is outrageous in the regards that my history teacher is trying to pass it off as a fair representation of the Middle East. Unfortunately, it is propaganda like this that will continue to brainwash him and millions of other Americans until they can realize that there is no real difference and that their anti-Muslim/anti-Middle East sentiment is stupid and nothing to even worry about.

Cheers
Auqukuh

Choice is the death of all possibilites.

[–] LeiaKat 19 years ago

You do realize this is strongly based on the book written by Betty Mahmoody. Have you actually been to Iran? While Iran has a rich and a quickly becoming 'modern' society, they still have strong hatred for other countries - including the USA. My boss just returned from Iran, and informed us while there are many brillant minds that are looking out to collaborate with other countries - there were still many signs, even within mosques, stating 'Death to America' and 'Death to Israel'. While I'm sure the average Iranian is warm and accepting to foreign sposes - try to get a divorce, taking the children, and see then how the family treats you. This is more a classic story of a women stuck alone far from home, then a planned attack on Iran. Also this is Iran in 1985 - when the country had a sudden and harsh revert to traditional ways. Before attacking the film, try looking at it in context. You are a modern free talking American women who is told she is going to have to stay in a country where she is expected to be covered up and act in accordance to a religion that is not her own and hates her home country. If she pushes to return to America, she must divorce and leave her daughter. What kind of story would you write? Some people I guess just love to assume everything is an attack because it is easier.

[–] acoustic-3 19 years ago

'Death to America' and 'Death to Israel' are direct attacks at horrible governments, not the state's general populace. Even foreign Americans travelling to Iran in recent years (see Bird, Christiane 2002) have received an extremely warm welcome providing they respect Iranian culture with a degree of intercultural sensitivity (something that everyone should equipt themselves with). If my country's only attempt at democracy (1953 coup de'tat when Mossadegh was overthrown and Mohammad Reza Shah was returned to power with the help of the CIA - look up 'Operation AJAX' if you don't know about it) was thwarted by America, I wouldn't like them either. As for Israel? Well, if you haven't, I suggest reading Joe Sacco's graphic novel "Palestine" - it will tell you more than I ever could.

[–] kaaveh_ahangar_iran 19 years ago

Not Without My Daughter is a dirty propaganda movie intended to damage the Iranian people in such horrible racist way. some people are stupid enough that they believe everything they hear or see and think that every bogus story is true. When you're an ignorant person that happens a lot. Shame to the few Iranian retarded actors who played in this shameful movie.

On every street in every city, there's a nobody who dreams of being a somebody.

[–] mahiii_dodiii 19 years ago

I am agree with the last poster. Not Without My Daughter was a propaganda film, intended to damages the Iranian people. It was an untrue story with lot of BS in it.

[–] PeykanTM 19 years ago

1 hour video on google video about Americans taking a trip to Iran.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1261997276278762399&q=iran

[–] proudperson 18 years ago

"Not Without My Daughter is a dirty propaganda movie intended to damage the Iranian people in such horrible racist way. some people are stupid enough that they believe everything they hear or see and think that every bogus story is true. When you're an ignorant person that happens a lot. Shame to the few Iranian retarded actors who played in this shameful movie. "

It seems that you kaaveh_ahangar_iran are racist and ignorant. This movie was not to damage Iranians but to speak of the plight of a woman, who was trapped by a culture in the midth of a revelusion that had happened 5 years prior.

If your consider it propagander is it worse that that which is heard everyday in the muslim countries in supposedly holy mosques?

muslims tend to be friendly to foreigners, but then what better way to get converts, after all if a grocery store treats you well, you will return again to that store rather than go to a competitor. (i'm not saying that all muslims have an agenda). What a shame they don't treat there own , especially women and girls, with the same repect. Educated and middle class in certain muslim contries are thankfully changing their vulgar abusive ways.

[–] pugnaciousboxer-1 10 years ago

"muslims tend to be friendly to foreigners, but then what better way to get converts, after all if a grocery store treats you well, you will return again to that store rather than go to a competitor. (i'm not saying that all muslims have an agenda). "

You just did, you *beep* idiot.

I feel as if I lost 10 IQ points.

What a contrast between my studying and the *beep* you just spewed.

Are you a high school dropout by any chance because you sound like a *beep* retard.

[–] drxcreatures 10 years ago

So the news just has made it all up, all these years? NO ONE (not even Betty) has said that everything was evil there. Wow, you whine!

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com