Was Martin Gay?


I watched the movie and Martin seemed to come off as someone who did not trust women but deeply cared for Andy. It felt as if he had a crush on Andy and was angered that he had sex with Celia not because it was Celia but because he had slept with a woman. Crushing his feelings towards Andy.

Maybe in just weird.

reply

I've always wondered when someone would ask that. :) The film doesn't explicitly imply homosexual feelings in Martin for Andy, but he obviously cares for Andy and feels betrayed when Andy sleeps with Celia. It IS because Andy sleeps with Celia specifically though, whether you want to interpret Martin's feelings toward Andy as homosexual or deep but platonic. Martin's poisonous relationship with Celia perpetuates Martin's inherent inability to trust other people. She makes him feel dependant and helpless in addition to the mild thrills he gets being able to toy with her affections without returning them. Andy is a breath of fresh air because he's straightforward and kind; he has no ulterior motives and respects Martin. Martin says at one point that Andy is the first person he's really trusted. So Martin is devastated by Andy's sleeping with Celia because it shows he can lie to Martin, on top of the fact that Celia represents all Martin is trying to distance himself from but lacks the courage to. So she's basically poisoned his relationship with Andy too. Martin knows early on that Andy is heterosexual, so I don't think the tryst with Celia shocked him for this reason.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to think Martin is gay or that his relationship with Andy is a gay crush to some extent; I just don't think the film addresses this one way or another. It is telling that, when Celia attempts to seduce Martin and he flees, he cries out, "I can't...not with ANYONE!" I think Martin is celibate because he has such an instinctive inability to trust others, to allow himself to become emotionally as well as physically intimate. He's thought since childhood that others were deceiving him, starting with his mother, so he reflexively isolates himself. Celia's influence is all the more malign because he does to some extent rely on her, and she only furthers his negative perceptions of humanity. To Martin, Andy's honesty meant more than his friendliness (or possible romance if you think Martin is gay.) In the end, Martin realizes that his perception of his mother was mistaken, that people can be weak without being fundamentally bad, and the friendship with Andy is restored. I don't really see a gay subtext there, but understand why others might. I think Jocelyn Moorhouse would have been more explicit if she intended one. But sexuality isn't what the film is really about, so you can gain the same insights from it whether you see Martin's bond with Andy as a friendship or as something more.

reply

Excellent comment I agree with. I could hardly speak for a days after I saw the film it touched so many truths. I know, after I was put in a wheelchair and then in time gained some mobility, that my confidence was altered. If someone made I pass I would always wonder why. Perhaps, after so long alone, this is the natural feeling for Martin and when someone comes on so strong it's just a wee bit scary. Whether disabled or perfect, being betrayed by a friend, for that's what Russels actions must feel like - a deception at the very least, is hurtful. You don't have to be gay to be hurt by a friend of either sex nor to value such a friendship. I know I have.

Have you no thought, o dreamer, that it may be all maya, illusion?

reply

I think Martin's sexuality is deliberately left to the viewer's imagination. It's sexier that way, imagining him with either Crowe's character or the housekeeper. Personally, I think he was most likely bi and attracted to both for different reasons.

reply

Well, it's fair to say he was attracted to both for different reasons, but I didn't read any sexual attraction into this interest. As I explained in my earlier post, Martin finds it so difficult to trust anyone that the idea of becoming intimate is a nonstarter for him. But you're right that there's no way to tell one way or the other what Martin's sexual orientation is. Within the context of the film, he's definitely asexual. He begins to open up at the end, though, so where he goes from there is up to the viewer's imagination. :)

reply

While it's possible that Martin is gay, I don't believe that's the case. Martin's anger with Andy is over the fact that he was covering up his affair with Celia, and Martin hates being lied too. Martin also was angry in an irrational way just by Andy not immediately taking his side and hating Celia when they first met.

The scene where Celia trys to have sex with Martin to me shows that he actually is straight but is too emotionally withdrawn to be with anyone. For a few seconds during the scene he allows himself to get into it and you can see he is enjoying it, then he remembers himself and pushes her off.

reply

I agree virtually 100% with blackwingrose- Martin was aroused when he was with Celia but because of his trust issues, is unable/unwilling to follow through. And he was hurt by Andy because Andy lied about his relationship with Celia, not because he wanted to have sex with him. I think another factor people may not be considering is the culture. The friendship between Martin and Andy reminded me a lot of the one between Toni Collette and Rachel Griffiths in the Austrailian movie Muriel's Wedding, another movie in which the sexuality of the two characters was also questioned by some viewers. If Martin were gay, I believe Moorehouse (and the actor) would have made that much more clear; to say that he was gay because he didn't actually have sex with Celia suggests to me that viewers are not catching the whole point of the movie: that Martin's lack of trust has inhibited and impacted his life significantly, all stemming from that one time he doubted his mother was being truthful to him.

reply

And I agree 100 percent with this. I'd always inferred that Martin had a man-crush (platonic, in other words) on Andy, because Andy was everything that Martin was terrified to be – charismatic, totally at ease with himself, not afraid of anything, especially not afraid of fully enjoying his own body and having sex.

Andy was also Martin's first real friend in his life, not to mention his first male friend. Having been raised by his mother who was obviously ill-prepared to deal with a blind son, then right into the care of equally disturbed Celia, he'd never had any man, much less a man's man like Andy, to spend time with him, bond with him and teach him how to be a man.

reply

I essentially agree with your interpretation. I don't tell others how to interpret the film, and the homosexual issue is a recurring question raised about the film. Often any degree of emotional intimacy between characters is interpreted by some viewers as erotic; I personally disagree with this tendency but is has become fairly prevalent, particularly when addressing platonic male/female relationships. In this film the interpretation becomes one of labelling Martin gay or bisexual. Also, I think some people might read into the drive-in scene where thugs misinterpret Martin's fumbling around in Andy's car, and Andy's subsequent defense of him, as evidence of a homosexual relationship. Once that theme is raised, it can become lodged in the viewer's mind, particularly as the characters bond and confide in one another after the incident. I personally think the homosexuality accusation is a coincidence, a source of humor rather than a clue to Martin's feelings about Andy, but can understand why others might see things differently. I think Martin is surprised that's he's able to attain a degree of trust--of emotional intimacy--with Andy. This is the thematic hinge of the plot (trust), not Martin's sexual orientation.

It's hard to tell how aroused Martin is by Celia because she basically forces herself on him. Martin coldly dismisses her earlier sexual passes because he's on home turf and feels more comfortable doing so. I do think he enjoys playing games with Celia's obvious desire for him because it's the only advantage he holds over her. Once she's blackmailed him into the date, gotten his emotions uncomfortably near the surface with the concert and lured him to unfamiliar territory, he's uncertain how to react. He might respond to Celia's advances because he doesn't want to seem weak, or because his body is racing ahead of his mind and self-control. The scene is tensed between vulnerability and force; both actors create such memorable characters that you're torn between Celia's unfulfilled longings and Martin's fear of her and of being vulnerable. But the scene also has overtones of rape because Martin is so clearly at her mercy whether he desires her or not.

reply

[deleted]

Physically aroused, undoubtedly. After what Celia does to him that would be pretty inevitable. What I meant was that Martin is emotionally torn over whether to go through with the act or not. But I generally agree with all your points. I have actually been in relationships with men who would "go halfway" in sexual encounters but then abruptly decide they didn't want to go through with it despite all physical signs to the contrary. And I have had men try to force themselves on me, too. So I can understand the perspective of both characters in that scene, though not to the personality extremes Martin and Celia exhibit.

It's too bad Weaving, Crowe and Jocelyn Moorhouse were unable to work together again on Eucalyptus last year, but I guess time changed a lot of things (to put it as objectively as I can...) Hugo Weaving and Genevieve Picot did reteam in 1997 for True Love and Chaos. It's not nearly the film Proof is but their characters' relationship is a highly ironic reminder of the great work they did in Proof.

reply

I couldn't care less about Marin's sexuality, or asexuality - aside from the fact that he's missing out on much pleasure, that is. I just wanted to point out that the thugs at the drive-in had reason to think that Martin - and, by association and circumstance, Andy - were gay because after being "shown" the universal sign for sexual activity by the thug driver, Martin (unknowingly) "shows" him "in response" the packet of condoms he's found.

reply

I watched the film all the way through for the first time last week. (Finally!) Honestly, I don't think Martin had romantic or sexual feelings for Andy. He deeply cared for him, yes, but as a friend and - perhaps - as kind of a brother figure. It seems to me that Andy was the first person Martin was able to open up to and befriend. So, naturally, he was threatened when Celia wormed her way between him and Andy. He wanted so badly to trust someone, and then he discovered that Andy was hiding from him. So that, not surprisingly, threw him into a tail spin.

Anyway, this was an amazing movie and I'd like to see it again. :)

reply

I think it's mildly ridiculous that people read gay subtext into any situation that involves two men not beating each other to a pulp. There was nothing to suggest that Martin was gay; he even complimented Celia's breasts.

reply

I think it's mildly ridiculous that people read gay subtext into any situation that involves two men not beating each other to a pulp.


thank you for saying that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ditto


-----------------------------------
"Where.... can I put my ash?"

reply

I think it's mildly ridiculous that people read gay subtext into any situation that involves two men not beating each other to a pulp.


I too find that mildly ridiculous, but I find it more ridiculous that people bother themselves so much with others' sexuality. Not that I think Martin was gay, but so what if there were a chance he was? Must that entail a bb thread? So annoying.

no i am db

reply

The character is sexually repressed and misogynistic, not gay. He attempts to displace onto his mother the feelings of castration he suffers because of his blindness. He resents the power his mother has over him, the power of vision.

In the world of Western cinema and photography, it is chiefly the woman who is made the object of the gaze, not the man. Martin's blindness, in his view, feminizes him and he is indeed made the object of an unreciprocated gaze in the scene with Martin's maid, Celia. She takes advantage of inequality just as men do in patriarchal societies.

reply

You're forgetting the part where his mom resented him and wouldn't take him anywhere, crazy lady. Child abuse is the origin of most homosexuality

reply

[deleted]

I do NOT think that Martin is gay at all. He is obviously aroused by Celia when she comes on to him, despite how horrid she has been to him. The fact that he's temporarily aroused DESPITE knowing how dangerous and evil she's shown herself to be is proof right there of his heterosexuality--know what I mean? It's like his body betrays his mind and his gut instincts at that moment, but then he comes back to his senses. The fact that he doesn't "want" her lies not in his homosexuality, but in the fact that he's a good guy who wants and deserves a nice, normal, kind, sweet, girl, not some evil, sadistic, psycho, obsessed stalker/freak! It's an insult to Martin to assume that he must be gay because he doesn't want to sleep with Celia, and, thus, have a relationship with her (she would have demanded more, and he knew that). Are blind men supposed to take whomever they can get, no matter how cruel or evil, because that's the best they can ever hope for?! Martin was hurt as a friend about the lie Andy told regarding the park photograph, and then he was hurt about the lie regarding Celia. He had told Andy how important honesty was to him early on, so this felt like such a betrayal. Then, he was upset because he realized that he'd lost the only male friend he'd ever had and he was still stuck with Celia. He was not hurt because he wanted Andy for himself. Thankfully, he managed to, again, come to his senses and fire Celia and forgive Andy.

reply

I do NOT think that Martin is gay at all. He is obviously aroused by Celia when she comes on to him, despite how horrid she has been to him. The fact that he's temporarily aroused DESPITE knowing how dangerous and evil she's shown herself to be is proof right there of his heterosexuality--know what I mean? It's like his body betrays his mind and his gut instincts at that moment, but then he comes back to his senses. The fact that he doesn't "want" her lies not in his homosexuality, but in the fact that he's a good guy who wants and deserves a nice, normal, kind, sweet, girl, not some evil, sadistic, psycho, obsessed stalker/freak! It's an insult to Martin to assume that he must be gay because he doesn't want to sleep with Celia, and, thus, have a relationship with her (she would have demanded more, and he knew that). Are blind men supposed to take whomever they can get, no matter how cruel or evil, because that's the best they can ever hope for?! Martin was hurt as a friend about the lie Andy told regarding the park photograph, and then he was hurt about the lie regarding Celia. He had told Andy how important honesty was to him early on, so this felt like such a betrayal. Then, he was upset because he realized that he'd lost the only male friend he'd ever had and he was still stuck with Celia. He was not hurt because he wanted Andy for himself. Thankfully, he managed to, again, come to his senses and fire Celia and forgive Andy.

reply