At the end, when Jessup is being arrested, Jack the lawyer Mirandizes him--I thought this was odd, but I don't know much about the military. Are marines/military personnel all capable of arresting people or can people of a certain rank do this? Or was this a special case where that particular character could do this?
share[deleted]
No, I meant the Kevin Bacon character--he stands up and starts "You have the right to remain silent...etc." Is he able to do that? I thought the people actually performing the arrest had to do that.
share[deleted]
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What, precisely, is Jessop being arrested for?
shareI may be mistaken, but I believe that COL Jessop would likely have been charged with the following violations:
Article 81: Conspiracy (with LTCOL Markinson & LT Kendrick)
Article 90: Willfully Disobeying Superior Commissioned Officer (ordering a Code Red in violation of the CINCLANT's order not to)
Article 92: Failure to Obey Order or Regulation (same as above)
Article 107: False Statements (the transfer order, lying during the investigation and trial)
Article 131: Perjury (lying during the trial)
Article 133: Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and a Gentleman
Anyway, that's my best guess.
Thanks for the outline which makes these options clear, however, I still have some problems with all of it.
1. Conspiracy -- maybe or maybe not. No one knows at this point. Wouldn't some sort of investigation into the matter be necessary to lead to an actual arrest?
2. Failure to obey an order I would think, is hardly an arrest-able offense.
3. Perjury. Did he actually claim, under oath, during the trial that he did NOT order a code red? I don't remember. If so, they got him there. But an on the spot arrest seems unreal and forced.
4. Conduct unbecoming. . . again, hardly something to warrant an arrest.
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A common but incorrect belief that people have is that "reading your rights" or being Mirandized, is the act of arrest.
It is not.
You can be Mirandized and still not be under arrest, and you can be arrested without being Mirandized.
One has nothing to do with the other except in Hollywood.
Being read your Miranda Act rights, has to do with the legal status of your answers under any questioning. Any answers you may give under interrogation cannot be admitted in court and used against you if you have not been made aware of those rights explicitly. The legal system cannot "assume" you are aware of your rights.
Only after having been read your rights and stated that you are aware of those rights, can any answers you give to questions put to you by the police be then used against you in court.
If you are asked to come in for questioning but never placed under arrest, you still have to be mirandized or your statements are useless.
On the other hand, a police officer arriving on the scene of a crime and catching the criminals in the act (store robbery for example) are caught and arrested. the Officer does NOT have to read your rights to you at that point. You are not being questioned or interrogated. YOU are being arrested caught in the act.
But Hollywood has shown over and over again the rights being read at the moment of arrest as part of the actual arrest itself. Thus it falls into the collective consciousness of the general public that the reading of your rights is the act of arresting itself.
Not true.
It has becomes so bad, and so many police departments have to put up with and defend against ignorant accusations of "false arrest" from every moron that keeps insisting that they must be read their rights or else it is a false arrest... That many departments have said Screw it.. read them their rights when you arrest.
It is not because they have to by law... But rather to shut up the idiots that refuse to understand the truth. It becomes a matter of departmental policy to do so, but not a requirement by law.
Besides.. Reading a suspect their rights when you don't have to harms no one.
But not reading them their rights when they should have does.
So many departments no just do it, necessary or not, just to get it out of the way and they can't claim later that it was never done.
What the Law requires is that the rights must be read prior to interrogation/Questioning. Not prior to or incidental to arrest.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
You are correct that Miranda Rights are not an element of arrest but rather of questioning someone who is under arrest.
Arrest + questioning = Miranda applies.
Arrest - questioning = no Miranda necessary.
Questioning anyone who free to leave at any time (IE not under arrest) Miranda does not apply.
And Miranda only applies to any answers given that the prosecution wants to enter into evidence. Such things as confessions are excluded when suspects are not properly informed of their rights.
Actually only partially correct. I was not under arrest and free to leave and yet Mirandized.
Because the questioning was in regards to me being the potential suspect of a crime.
I was innocent. Accused of a crime by the asshat I busted who was trying to get away with his crime.
It does not need to be arrest + questioning.
It just has to do with questioning, specifically the nature of the questioning.
A cop pulling you over on a traffic stop and asking basic information about you pursuant to that stop, Your name and Date of Birth etc... does not need Miranda.
Questioning you as the suspect of a crime with questions regarding that crime DOES need Miranda.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
Questioning you as the suspect of a crime with questions regarding that crime DOES need Miranda.
That is correct. My answer was limited to Miranda vs arrest.
Sorry, but you're making a distinction without a difference.
Let me attempt to make this clear once more.
If a person is detained (that is, NOT FREE TO LEAVE) any answers to questions by the police will not be admissible later in court unless the individual has been advised of his rights.
If a person is detained and they volunteer information without being questioned either directly or indirectly, that information can be introduced.
If a person is arrested and the police do not ask him any questions, Miranda is irrelevant.
The only time Miranda comes into play is if a prosecutor seeks to introduce evidence that was obtained as a result of questioning a person detained.
See also: Fruit of the poison tree.
That is why many departments have a policy that anyone arrested will be immediately advised of their rights and sometimes they will be re-informed of their rights before any questioning takes place.
It is a defense attorney and a retired detective in a lecture which they argue that one should never speak to the police without an attorney being present
That is why many departments have a policy that anyone arrested will be immediately advised of their rights and sometimes they will be re-informed of their rights before any questioning takes place.
That is/would be a horrible policy.
Why? The point is we don't want good police investigation evidence to be tossed out after the fact because of a lack of Miranda advisory.
strictly speaking, Kaffee was instructing the MPs to arrest Jessup.
I thought the military judge ordered the MPs to detain Col. Jessup
shareRemember Jessup said "I'm going on back to my base"... and the judge said "Empees guard the kernel"... yes the judge detained him, and 'Smiling' Jack Ross was the arresting officer
spot on, hana
shareIt's MP's (military police) and Colonel, not 'kernal'.
shareHe knows that. He and that daddy-tej are the same person, Daddy-tej is the prime account,the other is one of about 2 dozen sock puppets of this troll.
He has entire threads on some boards where he carries on entire conversations with multiple Socs of himself.
One of this troll's trademark moves is deliberate misspellings.
And Stolen Valor claims.
(He claims to be a Marine Officer/Navy F-14 Pilot/Navy Submariner/Navy SEAL)
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
He knows that. He and that daddy-tej are the same person, Daddy-tej is the prime account,the other is one of about 2 dozen sock puppets of this troll.
Shove it Grondigg66/Premmie. Everyone knows who you are.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
I know. We've had our differences.
We both said things we didn't mean.
If you've gained some respect for me, I'm happy about that.
But it's no big deal.
You needn't say you like me, hana.
I know. We've had our differences.
We both said things we didn't mean.