MovieChat Forums > Under Siege (1992) Discussion > Stupid SEAL assault?

Stupid SEAL assault?

posted 11 years ago by jh66
21 replies | jump to latest

Why did they fly close to the ship enough to get shot down, as possibly suspected? They could (and do?) drop into the sea?

Like Ryback, why not attack from the sea at night and scale up the ship by stealth?

[–] Blueghost 11 years ago

In terms of the movie, because they were dumb.

In terms of the story, the audience needed to see Segal being smarter and tougher than the pirates.

[–] jh66 10 years ago

I suppose.

It's as pointless a plot as having a stupid, talentless b1tch in the film?

[–] Jeneral28 10 years ago

Yes it was stupid. They said they had an Apache which the US SEALs dont use and they didnt take down anything.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

You're wrong of course. Care to correct that statement wannabe? The USN has never had any Chinooks. The helo in question is a Sea Knight, aka H-46. Most likely it was a UH-46D. Anyone who cannot distinguish a Chinook from a Sea Knight should definitely take the Trident off their profile pic.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

Did I say that? Nope. I said the USN as in the US Navy, never had Chinooks. Notice the helicopter in question has the letters N A V Y on it right? Not that I would need the markings to tell its a 46.

You could at least make a better attempt at trolling. Don't quit your day job dude, that is if you have a job over there in Liverpool.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

Im not wrong. Its without a doubt an H-46. The cabin, the windscreen in the cockpit scene are of an H-46. Its physically and literally the same production H-46 that they used to land the terrorists in the beginning. Its a noted goof that Capt. Garza says that. And as I said the Navy has never had CH-53s. The Navy has had RH-53 and MH-53 Sea Dragon, which is a different helo used for minesweeping. A CH-53E is not a Sea Stallion, its a Super Stallion. The E Super Stallion is a far different helo from the D Sea Stallion.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] bubblenator 10 years ago

he explains that SEAL Team 5 will arrive by a CH-53E, which according to my supplements is a Sikorsky 'Sea Stallion'.

"which according to my Wikipedia supplements is a Sikorsky 'Sea Stallion"

So Grondig66 since you have spent years in the the US Navy SEAL Teams yet you don't know the difference between a CH-53 (which is a Sea Stallion) and a CH-53E (which is called a CH-53E Super Stallion with a Navy variant MH-53E Sea Dragon)?!

How could a guy with so much experience in the US military not know something as simple as this? I mean you earned your Trident didn't you yet you never did say which BUD/S class you were in?

If you are not willing to give up everything, you have already lost

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

It doesn't matter what they said in the movie, its a goof and inaccurate. The actual helo used was a H-46. There is nothing fanasmical like warp drives, about knowing what an H-46 looks like or the fact that the Navy does not use the CH-53.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] sonofagun 9 years ago

Uda thunk they would've sent another chopper in ahead of the team to assess the situation, even draw out (or take out) any threats. Wasn't there suppose to be a gunship with them?

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

In terms of the story, the audience needed to see Segal being smarter and tougher than the pirates.

There needed to be some serious cannon fodder, so the SEALS took one for the team, just as they did in The Rock.🐭

[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

It would be most difficult for the SEALs to conduct a waterborne assault of a moving ship far out to sea. The 4 options would be:
1 - Lock out from a sub and use SEAL Delivery Vehicles (SDVs) to move unseen to the target. Problem with this is, first you have to get the sub near the ship which would take too much time. Second, the SDVs are slow and not suitable for assaulting a moving target. It would never work. You also could only get about a team of 8 at most inserted this way. You need more bodies.
2 - 30/30 into the water from the helo far enough out that the ship cannot detect the helo and then swim in. Perfect if the target is not moving. Since the ship is underway, this option is a no go.
3 - 30/30 into the water from the helo far enough out that the ship cannot detect the helo and use CRRCs(Zodiacs) to move in. On paper this one seems good. There are a lot of moving parts to it though. The closure to the target would be slow, you want to keep the CRRC at creep speed so there is no sound given away. Creep speed is about 6-8 knots. This makes the approach to board difficult. Most contested boardings from the Sea are preferred to be done during the day with air cover from helos while the vessel is stopped. Its basically an accident waiting to happen.
4 - Helo Assault an entire team onto the deck. To me this is the best option. An H-46 is not going to be too vulnerable to a MANPAD (Stinger). The IR protection on a H-46 is actually top of the line. Low altitude, low risk to a MANPAD. There should be some jamming support of course. And there should be more than one helo. One helo to do the assault and one helo to provide cover and follow on support.

A bonus option we would have in the present would be HAHO. It would be really risky especially if there is any moonlight/starlight but, it would be possible. NSW and MARSOC have recently done some publicly advertised HAHO Jumps onto moving ships off the VACAPES. The question would be if you could get primo conditions and a lot of luck and enough jumpers onto the target. They are getting good with HAHO but Im not sure its good enough.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] bubblenator 10 years ago

Sorry Dubyah I didn't realise that you went over all possible options for an assault of the USS Missouri.

3 - 30/30 into the water from the helo far enough out that the ship cannot detect the helo and use CRRCs(Zodiacs) to move in. On paper this one seems good. There are a lot of moving parts to it though. The closure to the target would be slow, you want to keep the CRRC at creep speed so there is no sound given away. Creep speed is about 6-8 knots. This makes the approach to board difficult. Most contested boardings from the Sea are preferred to be done during the day with air cover from helos while the vessel is stopped. Its basically an accident waiting to happen.

This was going to be my next option as the they would parachute out of say a C-130/C-2 Greyhound with a couple of Zodiacs with them like what happened in Act of Valor before they rendezvoused with the submarine. Then as they slowly reach the Mo SEAL snipers could take out "henchmen" doing roving patrols. Again climbing up the steel ladder. Yes a moonless night would be very beneficial!

A bonus option we would have in the present would be HAHO.

I'm guessing that SEALs as they are called SEa Air and Land operators so do they train for taking shots from their rifles while coming down on an HAHO jump? Similar to what happened in the beginning of Air Force One?

If you are not willing to give up everything, you have already lost

[–] dubyahsrobotminion 10 years ago

If you jumped out of range of Mo's radar, the closure in CRRCs would simply take too long. And like I mentioned its not preferred to do a waterborne assault by itself, least of not against a warship.

With HAHO there really is no capability of combat while still under the canopy. The Army experimented with Tandem Jumpers back in the day. There are too many tradeoffs though. Little gear can be carried due to weight limitations of the rig. Tandem jumpers have a much higher descent rate, which during HAHO is very important. And what do you get in return? A shooter that is still not very accurate. Multiply the complexity of shooting from a helo by 3 fold.

You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?

[–] bubblenator 10 years ago

With HAHO there really is no capability of combat while still under the canopy.

It did seem like fantasy (but like you said the US Armed Forces would have tried it before in R&D) as you would also have to steer your parachute while trying to shoot a moving target. 3x harder than sniping from a moving helo on a moving person.

If you jumped out of range of Mo's radar

I have no idea how far out the Mo's Radar goes out to for birds (fixed wing or helos) as the maximum you can travel from a HAHO jumps is about 50km (31miles).

The Mo's radar would easily see a C-2 Greyhound from the Nimitz 50km out and then turning around back to the Aircraft Carrier. Therefore you would have have to create a diversion whilst this was going on. Such as F/A-18 Hornets flying just out of range of the Mo's weapon systems.

The Mo had no anti aircraft missiles so all it could do was use the CIWS and MANPADS on board which only have a maximum range of about 10km!

If you are not willing to give up everything, you have already lost