MovieChat Forums > Xena: Warrior Princess (1995) Discussion > Issues I took with the HTLJ episode Arma...

Issues I took with the HTLJ episode Armageddon Now part 2


*Callisto has Always said it was her mother and sister so why is it here it's her mother and father?

*So in a surprising twist it's Callisto who kills her parents. Why? The tragedy of Callisto's character is that she is the victim. She's justified in her hatred for Xena but not justified in the pain she causes for others. But now Callisto going bad is entirely her fault.

*What is with Xena's outfit in the Cirra's flashback. Why couldn't we see her outfit in her original trilogy on Hercules? Even Lucy Lawless said that outfit was sexy?


*So Ares and Xena are familiars during Cirra? Because in Reckoning Xena said she never personally met Ares before then (I assume all of Ares training of her prior to The Warrior Princess happened without him revealing his true self to her as he was in his season 1 Hercules episodes being an unseen force


*Why is Xena sitting on her ass on her throne in the Cirra raid? Pretty sure Xena was an active hands on warlord not sit back and let her soldiers do everything


*Are we really suppose to believe that Hercules had that much of an influence on Xena that without his existence she would become far worse than she was and lose whatever speck of morality she had? Whatever I choose to believe in that alternate timeline Gabrielle managed to touch the conquerors heart and reform her. They are soul mates after all destined to meet in every life and alternate timeline .


*On that note why the hell is Darphus still alive? His betrayal of Xena would have happened regardless of Hercules. So presumably the Gauntlet still happened. Are we suppose to believe that Xena took back control of her army and let Darphus fall back in line? Hell no. She killed another soldier just for trying to surrender. Darphus tried to have her killed. Xena would have murdered Darphus and put his head on a pike making him an example of those who try to betray her.

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I assume the changes were because there was no Hercules...though it is kind of a stretch in some cases. LOL.

I agree that having Callisto kill her parents was just a really bad idea. The woman has the power of a god, and she say...transport them to safety? They should have gone with that. Iolaus (thankfully) changed history anyway again when he saved Hercules, (so the whole Callisto killing her own family never really happened). While he did nothing wrong, it would mean that restoring the proper timeline sacrifices Callisto's family. Instead they made it all too easy for him. Hercules dies=Everything is worse.

-
Keevan - I hate Ferengi. *THUNK*
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

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I don't consider that episode cannon. The writers were Hercules writers. They dropped the ball and didn't bother checking facts about Xena.

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Well actually Callisto's act of ma+patricide was reversed. If you recall she plainly says she never got to visit. However the event itself occurring has a greater psychological meaning within the narrative.

[3] Yet, it seems that as fascinating as this conflict is, we have all been ignoring one crucial scene. A scene which shows the most terrifying act of Callisto and, at the same time, gives us the perfect view into the mad blonde's soul. It is a scene in which Callisto tries to go back in time and prevent Xena from killing her family. This scene is ignored for several reasons, with the main reason being the fact that it happens in a time warp, never really effecting the Xenaverse.

[4] Although this is essentially true, I cannot dismiss it. The fact that a dream does not effect our reality has nothing to do with the dream's true reflection of our soul. Faced with a true problem and conflict, Callisto provides us with a closer look at her own soul, a look which just might answer some of our questions. Ladies and Gentlemen: Callisto Kills Her Parents.


http://www.whoosh.org/issue39/livni2.html

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"Callisto has Always said it was her mother and sister so why is it here it's her mother and father?"

- This is nit picky. But I'm sure it's a tiny error on the writers of the Hercules series. It's no big deal because either way, it's her family.

*So in a surprising twist it's Callisto who kills her parents. Why? The tragedy of Callisto's character is that she is the victim. She's justified in her hatred for Xena but not justified in the pain she causes for others. But now Callisto going bad is entirely her fault. 

- That wasn't real. It was just an alternate reality/time warp playing out the psychology of showing that the twisted Callisto would rather go back in time and take the blame by killing her family than let Xena order her army to do it.

"*What is with Xena's outfit in the Cirra's flashback. Why couldn't we see her outfit in her original trilogy on Hercules? Even Lucy Lawless said that outfit was sexy?"

- To establish a period some time ago when she ruled the nations with an iron fist. It allows us to know the difference in time between the Cirra days and the contemporary days.

"*So Ares and Xena are familiars during Cirra? Because in Reckoning Xena said she never personally met Ares before then (I assume all of Ares training of her prior to The Warrior Princess happened without him revealing his true self to her as he was in his season 1 Hercules episodes being an unseen force."

- Xena makes mention to Ares in the episode that she "always used to wonder what he looked like", so clearly he trained her under a disguised force. As for Ares being seen as an ally in the Hercules episode, that was just Ares manipulating the time warp.

"*Why is Xena sitting on her ass on her throne in the Cirra raid? Pretty sure Xena was an active hands on warlord not sit back and let her soldiers do everything."

- Xena was the "Destroyer of Nations." The Hercules series was capturing her old days where she gave orders to her army, who carried out deeds for her. That is who flamed Callisto's village. Xena never really personally had a physical hand in it.

"*Are we really suppose to believe that Hercules had that much of an influence on Xena that without his existence she would become far worse than she was and lose whatever speck of morality she had? Whatever I choose to believe in that alternate timeline Gabrielle managed to touch the conquerors heart and reform her. They are soul mates after all destined to meet in every life and alternate timeline."

- Yes because Xena would've descended into further darkness and would have probably allowed those warlords to kill Gabrielle and Co (if fate even had it in mind for them to cross paths) upon stumbling across them for the first time.

"*On that note why the hell is Darphus still alive? His betrayal of Xena would have happened regardless of Hercules. So presumably the Gauntlet still happened. Are we suppose to believe that Xena took back control of her army and let Darphus fall back in line? Hell no. She killed another soldier just for trying to surrender. Darphus tried to have her killed. Xena would have murdered Darphus and put his head on a pike making him an example of those who try to betray her." 

- The Cirra time frame was in the distant past - about 10 years ago when Callisto was a little girl. Darphus didn't betray Xena until the contemporary times when Hercules was attempting to reform her.

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The Cirra time frame was in the distant past - about 10 years ago when Callisto was a little girl. Darphus didn't betray Xena until the contemporary times when Hercules was attempting to reform her.


I'm actually referencing his presence in the alternate present with Xena the conqueror. He's shown to still be alive when this would have been after his betrayal.

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[deleted]

Again Hercules had nothing to do with Darphus's betrayal of Xena. Zilch, Nada. The power struggle, her not letting him kill women and children, him ransacking the village when she was away, her saving the baby and him taking over the army and making her walk the gauntlet. All of that happened completely independent from Hercules. Hercules had no influence on any of that happening. A world without Hercules would have still had a honorable warlord Xena and a treacherous Daprhus who would betray her for showing human decency.


Armageddon Now aired before the Xena s4. So they weren't following that it was the other way around so that's not really an answer



We saw the raid on Cirra in Destiny.Xena did not sit on her throne. And The Gauntlet and Warrior Princess also happened after Solan'd birth

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[deleted]

That doesn't prove your point at all. How did you even reach that conclusion?

Again Xena's "soft spot" where she refused to kill women and children and saved the baby had absolutely nothing to do Hercules. Hercules influence happened AFTER Xena walked the Gauntlet and was exiled from her army. If Hercules didn't exist Xena would still have a code that refuses to kill women and children and Darphus would still be insubordinate.


Everything you see in The Gauntlet involving Xena up until her taking Hercules on would have still happened


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Yes. Xena changes before she meets up with Hercules in The Gauntlet. Salmoneus tells Hercules that she has a good side. Hercules says she already started changing when she saved the baby. Hercules never changed her. That's a misconception. What Hercules did was spare her life, and gave her a chance. He supported her change and showed how good it was going after the bad guys. Xena mentions is this how it feels to be you, and Hercules says that she was now finding out how good it was going after bad guys.

Later Xena mentions she thought a lot about Lao Ma and that affected her change too. Xena was winding down her warlord ways in the Gauntlet. She tells Gabrielle: Not long before I met you, I was at the end of my rope. I-- was ready to give up. And then I thought of her and what she taught me, and-- and I was reborn.
Xena was going to change no matter what. With or without Hercules.

In Greek mythology there are many heroes. Perseus, Theseus, Odysseus. To name a few. Of course Xena is made up. I always thought it was very egotistical of the Hercules writers to suggest that a world without Hercules meant that there would be no other honorable heroes to stand up against the forces of evil.

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I try to sum it up to myself as with hercules gone, the whole time line was messed up. Like the butterfly effect. That at least explains circa attacked during day vs night, Darhus being there, ect

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