MovieChat Forums > Batman Forever (1995) Discussion > Movie set between Returns and Forever

Movie set between Returns and Forever


It seems like there should have been another Batman movie set in between the events of Returns and Forever to better connect the stories. This missing movie would likely be about Bruce’s first encounter with Two Face and how Harvey Dent became the villain since Batman mentions how it has been two years since he captured him. Also would involve Catwoman to explain her absence from this film, perhaps Two Face killed her or she died trying to save Batman from him.

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I think Catwoman just left Gotham because things were getting a little too hot for comfort there. Maybe she moved to Bludhaven.

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Assuming it's the same continuity as Batman Returns, and I've outlined my theory that each of the quadrilogy films (give or take 89 and Returns) takes place in a slightly deviated universe from its predecessor, I hope Catwoman cleared Batman's name with the police before leaving to Bludhaven.

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I remember Michael Uslan, the executive producer of the Batman films, saying that each of the Batman films from 1989-97, represent specific era in the character's history. Like Batman (1989) represent the early comics of Bob Kane and Bill Finger from 1939-40. Batman Returns represents the 1980s-90s comics, Batman Forever represents the 1950s comics that were drawn by Dick Sprang, and Batman & Robin represents the 1960s TV series with Adam West.

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I always got the vibe that each film represented a different decade in Batman's evolution, and that carried through to the Nolan films.

So, Batman 89 represented the early days before Batman's 'No Kill' rule came into being. It also has a very prominent gangster theme, and the 1930s, the decade in which Batman debuted, was the era of Warner Bros gangster movies.

Batman Returns took a lot of references from Nazi-era architecture, and its various fashions and styles are meant to evoke the post-war boom era (specifically 1947), according to its costume designers. Plus, it was the decade in which Penguin and Catwoman debuted.

Batman Forever takes a lighter, more family-friendly approach that evokes the 1950s, the era in which the Comics Code Authority was implemented to reign back the darker aspects of the medium. Gangster stories and horror was out, but sci-fi and more fantastical stories, which we see with Riddler's brain-drain contraption in the movie, were in.

Batman & Robin recalls the knowing ultra-camp tone of the 60s TV show with its super-colourful characters and its on-the-nose sexuality. Like the (admittedly much better-received 60s show), B&R is often criticised for not taking the character seriously.

Batman Begins represents a return to a more earnest, serious, gritty approach, as seen in the 1970s comics. It also depicts a globe-trotting Batman who is dealing with international threats beyond Gotham, like Ra's al Ghul, who debuted in the 70s.

The Dark Knight pays homage to the darker, more cynical graphic novels of the 1980s, including The Killing Joker and The Dark Knight Returns, in which The Joker plays a prominent role, and like Nolan's 2008 The Dark Knight, the 80s is generally regarded as a high-point in Batman media.

And finally, The Dark Knight Rises builds upon the huge success of TDK, just as 1990s comics developed narratives that directly followed from the events of major stories established in the 80s...

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...including Barbara Gordon's crippling. Comics started to take a more explicitly political approach, and it was also the era in which Bane first debuted.

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I always like to think that Forever is set in an alternate reality to 89 and Returns (in fact each movie is set in an alternate reality, bearing in mind that Gotham changes drastically between 89 and Returns, and 89/Returns, Forever, and Batman & Robin, each feature different Batman actors).

I like to think that the main beats of the previous films' narratives carry over to each sequel, but perhaps with slight differences. My take is that in Keaton's 'universe', he was forced to retire as Batman, due to being framed for The Ice Princess's murder and smashing through Gotham's traffic/causing a police pile-up, and became a hermit in the years that followed (the Batsignal shining at the end is Gordon trying to call Batman in for questioning).

But Forever exists in a universe in which Batman saved The Ice Princess (possibly because Val is a quicker, fitter and more humane Batman than Keaton), and thus evaded being framed. Also, in this universe, one other character is played by a different actor (i.e. Harvey Dent). Maybe Catwoman didn't have a complete breakdown in this particular universe, and her team-up with Penguin lasted a bit longer/she broke ties with Penguin before he could 'kill' her using his umbrella-copter.

Batman & Robin follows on from Forever quite accurately, with few deviations (although since we see Two-Face's costume back in Arkham, it's possible that in this universe, Two-Face didn't die, and was instead hauled back into Arkham, along with The Riddler), apart from the fact that Bruce looks different (I guess a different sperm fertilised Martha's ovum).

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Interesting, so Forever would be to 89/Returns like Superman Returns is to Superman I/II . Supposed to be same universe ..but not quite

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I guess so. I see them as various different parallel universes within a DC multiverse (akin to what we see in the MCU), but with only slight divergences. Val would have experienced most of what Keaton's Batman went through, just as Clooney will have experienced most of what Val and Keaton's Batmen went through, but they won't be the same, and their respective films are where their timelines most diverge.

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I see the 1989-97 Batman movies as like the James Bond movies in that probably the best way to make sense of the continuity is to use a "broad strokes" approach. During the Roger Moore era of the Bond films, there have been several occasions (such as in The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only) that made reference to the fact that James Bond was once married and his wife was murdered (in On Her Majesty's Secret Service with George Lazenby). And even Licence to Kill with Timothy Dalton explicitly mentioned that the Bond character was once married for a brief time but it didn't end very well.

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Interesting theories.

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Thanks. I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

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Have you seen the trailer for The Flash yet?

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Yes, and if I'm being honest, I've got my misgivings. Ezra is still a sore point for me.

What did you think?

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Loved every second - was going to wait for the Blu-ray, but I'll probably see it on the big screen.

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maybe have a quick cameo from victor freeze as well

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He already cameoed in Batman Returns.

Check out the scene where Selina is in Max's conference room sorting out the coffee mugs/jug, and the wall of fame behind her, featuring Max Shreck with various celebrities.

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oh yeah! it's really ice to see him in that film.

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Fun DC Theory Solves Burton & Schumacher's Batman Universe Confusion

https://screenrant.com/batman-tim-burton-joel-schumacher-same-universe-theory/

A fun theory suggests Joel Schumacher's Batman movies exist within the universe of Tim Burton's Batman, thus explaining their biggest differences.

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