MovieChat Forums > Casino (1995) Discussion > What if that pen really DID mean somethi...

What if that pen really DID mean something to the guy?

posted 6 months ago by TheMan18 (12698)
9 replies | jump to latest

As in, what if it was either REALLY expensive like many hundreds if not a thousand dollars worth OR it had some or other type of SENTIMENTAL value to the guy... And it got LOST or TAKEN just like that...

Yes, I am referring to the scene with the pen and the argument and then later Joe Pesci stabbing that dude with the pen in anger after he insulted Sam "Ace" Rothstein...

Even if we take out Joe Pesci out of the equation.

Would that man be HAPPY or even SATISFIED that that pen of his that he took out and put on a table went MISSING if for instance Robert De Niro's character didn't take notice and ask him "Is that yours, your pen?" and would he even feel this way even if it was neither, but it STILL got taken or lost etc, would he be like "Eh, to hell with it" or would he be like "Damn it, where's that pen of mine?" and would he still insult De Niro's character if his pen really was either very costly or very dear to him?

And also... Yes, he was wrong to insult him and Joe Pesci was wrong to stab (and possibly even kill him, does he die) with it but...

Couldn't De Niro also still retort to him along the lines of, even after the insult - "Excuse me sir, I am NOT trying to be forceful with you or tell you what to do, I just have an awareness that in this place, items like pens often go MISSING and I have even seen it happen, there is NO need whatsoever to be rude and angry with me, I was just trying to be helpful." And maybe Nicky can also get involved but first ask "OK Sam, you want me to take care of him, the jerk?" and then maybe if De Niro is angry he could be like "Yeah, hold him" and maybe they both can either beat him up or warn him, De Niro's character could also say who he is and inform him that if he continues to behave that way, he would bring sanctions on him and have him barred from casinos etc and maybe also angrily retort "Mr, are you always this rude to people who try to help you?" and if he continues maybe even throw him out but also say "The pen is not worth all this trouble, but don't you dare speak to me that way you ignorant bastard etc" and "I don't take other people's stuff and you don't tell me what to do OK" or something along those lines.

So if it went like this, how would it be like?

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

Plus, its a moot point but what was even the point of him taking the pen out (couldn't he just keep it in his blazer pocket?) and even more so, DELIBERATELY insulting De Niro's character, was he really trying to provoke some kind of conflict (maybe not just with him or someone else, perhaps?) or did he just get mad and whiny on a whim like that?

And why did Pesci not only get mad but like right outright killed him for it, couldn't he just beat him up or throw him out instead, Ace didn't even ask him to get involved like that let alone kill him.

[–] jacotodd47 (1081) 6 months ago

Yeah, if one remembers correctly - the guy was already agitated while Ace was introducing himself.

The reaction to the pen was him trying to show off to the girl he was with. Ace couldn't have been more polite as I recall.

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

"Ace couldn't have been more polite as I recall."

I meant more explanatory than polite although that too, maybe that guy thought he was simply barking orders at him and wanted to exert his authority over him, and he could've explained in more details that he meant well and state that he has seen personal items like pens get taken all the time around here rather than merely tell him what to do.

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

And I guess his pen wasn't that important to him and it has neither sentimental value nor was it too expensive if he simply stated to De Niro's character to "take it and shove it" and if it was he probably could've just put it away and no more problems would occur that day, lol.

[–] jacotodd47 (1081) 6 months ago

Yeah, but he was trying to be a big shot in front of the girl he was with. I mean I'd have to look at it again - but, if memory does serve, Ace politely asks him "Is this your pen?". I would have done the exact same thing. If I received an unpleasant "YEAH - It's MINE!". I would have said "Oh, great, I'm glad you have it back". Then if the guy gave me some sh(*&^%t I would say "HHmm - trying to impress your girl? Well you're not, you're just making yourself look like an idiot. Here - take your pen and have a nice life". With that I'd have walked away. I don't recall how Ace handles it. I do remember Nicky jumps in and starts stabbing the guy with the pen.

[–] BKB (7273) 6 months ago

Clearly you're liberal because they're in the mob and the man insulted Pesci and ended up not being such a tough guy after all.. What?? You would've had Deniro reason with him?? Bargain with him?? If he would've said what you wanted him to say, the movie wouldn't have been near as good as it is now

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

"Clearly you're liberal"
I don't necessarily view myself that way but I am not too much beyond this possibility either.

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

And on another note, (did that guy die by the way?), how come Pesci not only had no problem with almost if not outright killing him but doing so in a fairly public place with present witnesses, he didn't think the lady close to that man and several others around would somehow report him for that, no, he didn't even do it quietly like say take the guy to some room in the area with no witnesses present?

[–] TheMan18 (12698) 6 months ago

He insulted De Niro's character, not Pesci's. He ended up possibly being DEAD as well - much more of a concern than simply "not tough".

"If he would've said what you wanted him to say, the movie wouldn't have been near as good as it is now"
If done with enough talent, it could still be as equally good if not better. And that part was only a very small fraction of a movie that is 3 hours long.