MovieChat Forums > Don Juan DeMarco (1995) Discussion > You ALL missed the point - MAJOR SPOILER

You ALL missed the point - MAJOR SPOILER

posted 20 years ago by stainless_steel_rat1
71 replies | jump to latest

I've read all of the notes on this board, and I'm afraid to say that every single person here missed the point of the movie. This is not attacking anybody's intelligence, it's just that I haven't read a single post that has come close to discovering the true subtlety at the end of the movie.

I notice in the comments section of IMDB that many people expressed their dissappointment about the ambigious ending... was he, or was he not Don Juan? Many people said the movie sucked because they didn't want to decide for themselves. Ok, valid opinion. However this proves that the film-maker has gone right over their heads - for he HAS provided a definite ending. They just didn't recognise it. I'll ellaborate...

Many people here have theorised that Depp is, and many people that he isn't, the real Don Juan. Actually, this debate ALSO has nothing to do with the point of the movie.

Our first clue is given in the "grey husk" speech. Don Juan says "It is only in my world that you can breathe", to which the reply is "You are right. My world is not perfect". This clearly demonstrates that Jack finally ADMITS that the magic has left his life. It also demonstrates that Jack needs the dreamworld of Don Juan; he is captivated by the love and he realises that it is irrelevant whether Don Juan's reality is factual or not... he realises that the world is actually a better place with Don Juan off medication.

Ok, now skip forward to the "Why not?" comment. Many people like it because it provides an ambigious ending. It illustrates the point that it is irrelevant whether Don Juan is the REAL Don Juan... it is enough that the possibilities exists.

This is good, but it's only half of the answer.

People have been captivated by Don Juan's dream world and some say it's real, and other's just fantasy. But to date, all the of the fantasy elements in the movie have been supplied by Don Juan. He has been the dreamer and Jack has followed along. But think about what is going on when Jack says "Why not?". For the first time, JACK is determining the course of DON JUAN'S fantasy, is he not? It is NOT Don Juan that determines if he meets his lover; it is JACK who determines for us whether the lover is waiting on the beach or not. This indicates a subtle shift that we have left Don Juan's fantasy and entered Jack's. The "Why not?" comment at the end is NOT designed to resolve Don Juan's fantasy. No, it is there to demonstrate that the viewer is now in JACK's fantasty. HE alone now has complete control over what we, the audience, believe.
So you see, the "Why not?" comment DOES provide a definite ending, but not in the way that you first realise. It is NOT an abiguous ending. The "Why not?" comment can never be replaced because it completely makes the movie. It demonstrates the full transition of the viewer from Don Juan's fantasy to Jack's "dreaming" power.

It is COMPLETELY irrelevant whether Don Juan's fantasy is true or not... it is now relevant that we the audience like Don Juan's world so much that when he leaves our focus (as the camera pulls back), we are now WILLING to let somebody ELSE dictate how the story goes.

The point of the movie is NOT to get you thinking about whether Don Juan's world is real or not. The point of the movie is that ANYBODY has the power to create such a world. Even an ordinary schmuck like Jack... and hence by association even us, the audience.

This shift is so subtle, and it is cleverly disguised behind the OTHER meaning of the words "Why not?". I take my hat off to Jeremy Levon.

[–] bloomdepp 20 years ago

Wow. That's all that needs to be said. You are an intelligent person! I understand everything you said. I always knew that there was a deeper meaning to the end of that movie, and now it's been explained. One question--do you think he was really Don Juan? I kind of thought he was--I knew that before he said it, that he was going to tell the doctors that he grew up in Phoenix, etc. And he got the magazine story from Jack. What do you think?

"Oh well. Now I must die."
"Electricity makes me inSANE!"
"Okay. Okay. I'm going to freak right out."
"I'm not finished..."
~deppaholic~

[–] stainless_steel_rat1 20 years ago

Actually, I'll answer your question with another one:

Do you really think that Dr Mickler (Marlon Brando) is Don Octavio? If not, why not? Hehe... and don't dismiss it with an instant "Of course he wasn't!"... actually formulate an articulated answer so that you can express it with reason. And when you answer that, then you've answered your own question, because the answer to both of these questions (yours and mine) are the same.

Of course, the correct answer is that he is not Don Juan because the fictional character of Don Juan was created in the 16th century by Lord Byron in his poem of the same name. So either Johnny's character is EXTREMELY old (and Lord Byron based his poem on a real-life person), or he's not the real Don Juan.

But then... why not?

Actually, the magic of the movie is the fact that you even ask the question. I love it! :)

[–] ENDora_OF_THE_LINE 20 years ago

it really doesnt matter whether he was or wasn't...it matters that he was happy when he was don juan...so why not just be don juan....

Proud member of the J.D. Cult Est. 2003

[–] stainless_steel_rat1 20 years ago

Hear hear! Yep, at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. What does matter is if WE believe :)

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] stainless_steel_rat1 20 years ago

Of course, there's many a white pill or powder that will help with that! Lol! :)

[–] kirkmcloren 20 years ago

I suppose but the trip is in your head, not in the pill.

A speech in Second Hand Lions is brought to mind by this thread. It was at night out by the pond and was about "what you believe in"
The logic was it didn't matter if it were true that people are basically good and that good triumphs over evil. You believe because it is worth believing in.

Was a heck of a speech. Back to DJ de Marco
This could have been a real B movie but the talent -- Johnny Depp, Marlon Brando and (having a memory lapse here --) really pulled it off and made it a movie worth buying. At least IMHO.

The line "you can see your unborn children in her eyes" Truly inspired poetry.

[–] JTaylor48 20 years ago

stainless_steel_rat1 said:

<<Of course, the correct answer is that he is not Don Juan because the fictional character of Don Juan was created in the 16th century by Lord Byron in his poem of the same name. So either Johnny's character is EXTREMELY old (and Lord Byron based his poem on a real-life person), or he's not the real Don Juan.>>

Ah, but he never said he was the original Don Juan. He said all along that he was Don Juan DeMarco -- an important distinction, and very much to your original excellent point(s).

And as for Dr. Mickler, of course the correct answer is that he "is" Don Octavio. How could it be otherwise? ;-)

[–] telegramsam 20 years ago

Well he IS Don Juan, because he's made himself to be Don Juan. Does it matter that he grew up as John DeMarco in Phoenix, AZ? Nope. He's still Don Juan. And Dr. Mickler becomes Don Octavio at the end of the story. He wasn't born as Don Octavio, but he becomes Don Octavio. That's the whole point. Life is what you make of it. Either you can become cynical and let all the bad things in the world turn your blood to dust, or you can embrace the beauty in the world. That's what Don Juan is, basically, he's a physical representation of Passion in it's purest form.

[–] this_is_the_way_the_world_ends 15 years ago

"Well he IS Don Juan, because he's made himself to be Don Juan. Does it matter that he grew up as John DeMarco in Phoenix, AZ? Nope. He's still Don Juan. And Dr. Mickler becomes Don Octavio at the end of the story. He wasn't born as Don Octavio, but he becomes Don Octavio. That's the whole point. Life is what you make of it. Either you can become cynical and let all the bad things in the world turn your blood to dust, or you can embrace the beauty in the world. That's what Don Juan is, basically, he's a physical representation of Passion in it's purest form. "

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

damn... they should put that on the movie case.

___________
Amanda

http://groups.myspace.com/jonathanrandallfanclub

myspace.com/amanda_marr

[–] paoconno 20 years ago

Lord Byron did not create Don Juan. Several spanish authors and french great Moliere all created Don Juan stories before Byron. However Don Juan was based on a 12th century Spainard who was quite the ladies man. Then one day he saw a funeral procession in the streets. He asked one of the men who died and the man replied "you did." From that point on this great lover decided to join a monastery...he wore a burlap sack for the rest of his life and on his tombstone asked that it be written "here lies the most vile creature ever to live" True story.
I havent seen this movie but I love the chracter of Don Juan and you guys make it sound excited. I love movies that have open endings...it makes it fun.

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] alyshadawn_3 19 years ago

ya, i think it was like..Johnny Depp might have been Don Juan DeMarco to someone but isnt it like..anyone can be Don Juan DeMarco? Because anyone can be the greatest lover in the world to another person, so wouldnt that make the Don Juan DeMarco. I'm not sure if I'm repeating the same thing as the other person said but ya, I think the purpose of the movie is just to say that anyone can be Don Juan because anyone can be the greatest lover to another person.

[–] s_new_me 20 years ago

i'm seeing your point of viewstainless steel rat, i just want to make sure i have it
what you're saying is, in a nutshell, the movie makes us choose for ourselves, in the same way that don juan chose for himself, which path was his "reality", but whichever way we choose, and our thoughts on the matter are not the point of the movie. the point of the movie is that, because of and similar to don juan, in the end dr. mickler chose fantasy to be his reality. (the point of the movie is not what we chose, but what dr.mickler chose)
is this correct?

[–] nutellafreak 20 years ago

woah way to go on starting your own philosophical debate... i am so going to rent this movie now that ive read how great it is. did i ruin it for myself? ah who cares its johnny depp

[–] 20 years ago

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[–] chick443422 20 years ago

At the end of this movie I was left with a bitter-sweet feeling. I don't believe that he was don juan demarco or that he did all the things in which he said. He purely created his own reality to hide the fact that he had nothing and no one and was no one. It was wonderful and refreshing that he could change the views of Jack. but u have to realise that Jack really was something and had a wife while "don" was left with no one and nothing and had only a dream to rely on. Unless this movie was like "big fish" where the father had done everything that he said just added an interesting twist to it. what do u think?

[–] depprulz 20 years ago

I beleive he is Dan Juan, because he believes he is, and that is what the entire movie is!! basically. And, the fact that JD is sexy on his own and is DJDM anyway. That's my opionion

PROUD RUMRUNNER!!!
"but why is the rum gone?!!"

[–] panther7516 20 years ago

Bear with me, I know this looks long but I think it is worth the read...

Stainless steel rat has made the exact observation I made upon first viewing this film. I for one am glad to know that I was not the only one who saw it this way. To go along with what others have been debating about... Are John deMarco and Dr. Jack Mickler really Don Juan and Don Octavio? Life IS what you make it. Don Juan does have the corroboration of his mother (who cannot lie) saying that they did in fact live in Mexico. Men have a tendancy to get a bit carried away when talking of their conquests. He may not have had that many encounters but any 21 year old male might exaggerate in this area. I for one believe that everyone has an inner spirit that is suppessed into conformity. Don Juan was indeed a character created by the great Lord Byron and even was transformed to the operatic stage by Mozart in Don Giovanni (yes differnt names... same story, trust me). Don Juan deMarco is not the origional Don Juan but the same spirit and soul is possessed within the character of Don Juan (John deMarco). Is Dr. Mickler Don Octavio? Legally no. Spiritually, yes. He has found his inner spirit through Don Juan's stories and passion for love. We are indeed transported to Don Octavio's world but it is a world of great things and pure hearts... congratulations to all who picked up on the subtle yet brilliant shift, I commend you.

[–] Lynxspirit 20 years ago

After reading the initial user reviews of this movie, it was very refreshing to see some insights that showed depth and the ability to see beyond. I'm in agreement with Stainless and you, Panther in all but a few details, which I feel are irrelavent anyway. I think you captured the essence of the story.
I'm going to share a couple thoughts that came to me after watching this (several times). It comes down to 2 questions:
What is real? and
Would you rather right or happy?
And by right I don't mean knowing the correct reality - there isn't one. Everybody has a different reality and it constantly shifts. I mean believing and behaving within the standards that society has dictated. Don Juan had his reality and it was the one that emphasized meaning, the one he felt the most comfortable in. With only a slight deviation, at the hearing, where he adapted to the standards of others in order to continue, undisturbed in his world. Which comes to another option - choice. Don Juan made his choice, as did Don Octavio. Don Juan helped open Don Octavio's eyes to the fact that there was a different and better reality, one in which he "could breathe". Don Octavio helped Don Juan learn and decide to play the game so he could be free.

-Question everything

[–] Filaz 20 years ago

Which comes to another option - choice. Don Juan made his choice

Choice, that's one thing that keeps coming back to me. I know it's not that relevant but since i always see this questions if Don Juan is sane or not i keep thinking about it and this is what i believe. I believe that he is actually a sane person who chooses to live in a fantasy world. A fantasy world where everything is so much better and all the wrongs lead goods. I am thinking this because when he talks to the doctors he is perfectly capable of telling a "real" story.

[–] imadore 18 years ago

Who ever said that nuns can't lie? If you remeber clearly then al she said was that they did live in Mexico, but she wouldn't comment on any other aspect of his life. How is this supporting Don Jaun's statements.

[–] wonka138 20 years ago

I understand all that...my question after seeing the movie was whether Johnny Depp's character had realized all along that there were two "realities" (the don juan verses the john demarco) and simply chose the more romantic of the two...or if Johnny Depp's character was actually delusional and just responded remarkably well to the anti-delusional medication...that was my question.

Yes, I understand that it doesn't matter if he was the real don juan...I understand that it's about imagination and seeing beyond what's there and creating a perfect world for yourself that you might prefer to the "real" world....

my question is just whether Johnny Depp's character actually believed he was Don Juan...or made the conscious decision to let everyone think he thought he was Don Juan.

"One murder makes you a villian, millions a hero; numbers sanctify."

[–] FenrirWolf 20 years ago

to WONKA138 : I would say this movie is about the freedom we have to be whoever we decide to be. JD character's lines definitely show he is fully aware and conscious about who he wants to be.

[–] bloomdepp 20 years ago

yes! that's a great question. i had that in my head, but didn't know how to word it--that happens a lot. i would make a horrible teacher. BESIDE THE POINT...um, yes, that was my initial question--does he REALLY think he's don juan, or is he just leading US to think that? but after reading stainless' post, i realized what it really was about.

~deppaholic~

[–] OpalCat 20 years ago

That is my question as well. Also... did he grow up in Mexico/father killed in a duel/etc or did he grow up in Phoenix? I understand everything that the original poster said--and I agree with it, but I also don't think it was some big subtle thing that no one "got"...

But regardless of the point or meaning of the ending, I'm STILL curious as to which story of his upbringing was true. Obviously he wasn't the original Don Juan--that's not my question.

[–] wonka138 20 years ago

It's my opinion that his "real" history was being born in the Bronx or whatever and his father being killed in a duel (although if that's true I don't know why his mother told the other story....) Just like it's my opinion that he knew the whole time the difference between the two "realities" and just consciously chose the Don Juan life. But that's just my opinion...there's not really too much evidence to back it up either way...and I guess that's the point. Not only is fantasy sometimes more desirable than reality, sometimes it also blends into reality and the two become inseparable.

"One murder makes you a villian, millions a hero; numbers sanctify."

[–] purplepersia 20 years ago

What a great explanation. Thank you.