MovieChat Forums > Kôkaku kidôtai (1996) Discussion > Where did the "W" come from?

Where did the "W" come from?


Seriously, I tried researching this, and couldn't find any answers - it's like no one is even curious, everyone just accepts it as fact.

I could let it go, if it was just some random english-speaking dude; so they botch their name in a weird way and think they're a great artist. Whatever.

But this is a JAPANESE individual, which raises a whole different Pandora's Box of worms. Um.. opens a.. never mind, if they can both their name this badly and impossibly, I can botch some sayings.

In Japan, they don't generally use what they call 'Roumaji' (ローマ字) much. To them, western alphabet is just something distant that they sometimes use when they want to learn english, and understand that foreigners (外人) can't always understand japanese writing, so they try to use it in situations involving them, and they know how to read japanese language written in english alphabet, but it's not a normal, everyday situation for them, and for the most time, they don't think about 'japanese language written in english or Roman alphabet'.

This has lead to all kinds of powers, forces and entities screwing up what COULD be a very phonetic, useful and kana-like (ひらがな + カタカナ) way of 'transliterating' japanese language universally, but isn't.

Any japanese language student soon learns that Roumaji is completely MESSED UP. Never try to write japanese in Roman alphabet, or your mind will grind its teeth painfully until something snaps.

Japanese are blissfully oblivious to what has been done to their language not only in Japan, but over the seas as well. They don't care what people do to Roman alphabet, as long as kana and kanji remain the same.

The problems arise when japanese people try to write their own language in Roumaji, and then 'foreigners' that might be used to completely different writing system, or the logic of kana, or perhaps understand phonetics, try to read it.

Japan officially uses many different kinds of Roumaji, including the horrible 'Kunrei-Shiki'. I don't know why so many people messed with it and made it worse, but Hepburn is the only 'somewhat viable' way of writing japanese in Roumaji, the only one that at least tries to fit the sounds with the writing, and mimic how japanese is written in kana.

"Mitsubishi" (みつびし) and "Densha" (でんしゃ) are Hepburn.

It's perfectly fine in hiragana, as you can see. But when you start using Kunrei-Shiki or the american Roumaji or whatnot, because of the weird way english is pronounced completely differently than how it's written (foreigner's perspective), or the way english pronunciation changes based on what other letters are around the letter (native speaker's perspective), something like 'oh' can look acceptable to native speakers. (It is not)

Japanese have NO problem writing "Mitubisi" and thinking it's correct. I once wrote both words and asked which is correct, they said 'both look correct to me'.

I couldn't believe it.

Densha is often written as "Densya". This makes no sense, because although it's "De (で) n (ん) shi (し) (small ya) (ゃ), which means that 'shi ya' is contracted into 'sha'.

Listen to ANY japanese individual pronounce 'Densha' and you don't hear the 'ya' or 'y'-sound AT ALL, you just hear 'sha'. It should definitely be 'sha', but clueless translators keep 'Densya' in the name archives because they asked some japanese about it and that's how they decided to write it in Roumaji.

Remember that japanese people don't know or care about Roumaji, they write it ANY which way. What makes it stupider, is that they're taught the wrong (Kunrei-Shiki) in school, so they learn that first, THEN later on, they're taught Hepburn, but by that time, their brain already knows only 'Kunrei-Shiki', so they don't bother changing anything anymore, especially since they don't care about Roumaji and don't use it in their daily life.

This leads to situations where foreigners who don't understand japanese, ASK japanese people, and get horribly mutilated, incorrect Roumaji, and think it MUST be correct, since the source was a REAL JAPANESE individual.

I am telling people all of this only to show that Roumajization of Japanese is COMPLETELY BUTCHERED and messed up, and japanese people should NEVER be relied upon to know the correct Roumaji. It's not THEIR business to know it, and they don't care. To them, it's not REAL japanese language, so it doesn't matter how it's written. Kana and Kanji is real japanese to them.





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Sorry for the long-winded backstory, but it's necessary to understand my question.

I could mention as a sidenote, that any japanese word with a long wovel is usually butchered as well.

Tokyo is not Tokyo, in kana, it's written as "Toukyou" for the long 'o'-sounds. It could be written as "Tookyoo" or "Tōkyō" (see the little lines on top of the 'o's?), and it would be correct. Tokyo is definitely wrong, but as it's SO commonplace, I guess no one cares but me.

On the same token, Kyoto should also be Kyouto, Budo should be Budou, Judo should be Juudou (I think in kana, it's Jyuudou), and funnily enough, even Nintendo should be "Nintendoo" or "Nintendou" with a long 'o' at the end.

I think the problem arises from english having very few short 'o'-sounds, and any time you hear someone pronounce 'o'-sound in english, it is almost always stretched to sound almost exactly as japanese double 'o' or 'longer wovel'. Same is not true in japanese, but I guess no one cares.

So even if it's written "Tokyo", when a native english speaker pronounces it, it sounds pretty close to the correct word because of how english prounciation is messed up.

There are some really annoying ways of making the long 'o'-sound, but I don't support them, as they make no sense to me. "Tohkyoh" would be one. Why add an 'H'-sound of all things, when it doesn't sound ANYTHING like 'H'? Oh, that's right - it's because in english, 'oh' is pronounced as 'ou' (phonetically speaking), which is close to long 'o'-sound (but not exactly the same).

so, now that everyone knows that japanese Roumaji is COMPLETELY messed up and then screwed from behind without lube, we can come to my question; WHERE does the 'W' come from?

"What 'W'?", I hear you ask. Of course the author's name, Shirow Masamune. Why ShiroW?

As I mentioned, japanese people don't care about Roumaji, and in his JAPANESE version of his name, there IS no damn 'W'!

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So I must ask, did HE decide to transliterate 'Shirou' into 'Shirow' for SOME (what?) reason, or did some mffin !@%&"*" accursed, wretched, smart-ash foreigner TRANSLATOR butcher his name and because he's japanese and doesn't care about the Roumaji side of things, he might not even know about it, or at least doesn't pay much attention to it?

Did some foreigner butcher a famous Manga artist's name, and the world lets him get away with it??

士郎 (Shirou or Shirō)

正宗 (Masamune)

There is NO 'W', but even translation engines immediately put a W in there, even if you just put the 士郎, without the 士郎 正宗).

So my question is, _WHERE_ does the damn 'W' come from, when it's NOT in the original, japanese name, and should _NOT_ be Roumajized that way?

Isn't Roumajization MESSED UP enough already without doing this kind of stuff? WHO thought it was a good idea to turn a perfectly good 'U' into 'W? Was it his own choice (and if so, WHY?!), or did some translator just do it and it stuck for some reason?

There's absolutely _NO_ information about this anywhere I can find, so it's really a mystery; why should anyone perpetuate this horrible crime to an already beaten up system and language, perhaps even mutilate someone's name without them even realizing it, and why does everyone let them get away with it?!

Someone actually INTERVIEWED this guy in real life, and DID NOT ASK ABOUT THIS!!

What the F were they thinking?!

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