MovieChat Forums > Mr. Holland's Opus (1996) Discussion > The Opus itself

The Opus itself

posted 18 years ago by peltonni
51 replies | jump to latest

I'm a big fan of this movie and I've watched it a bunch of times, but I have to say, I just cannot like the symphony at the end. In fact, it's so bad to me that I almost feel like it cheapens the rest of the movie.

I think what happened is that the composer for the film wrote a symphony that he thought sounded like the end of a movie, as opposed to someone's life work. Almost the entire song has the same one note (for all intensive purposes) bass line and ridiculous "go get 'em" rythym. Then, the other instruments take turns playing one of the 2 or 3 melodies he uses on top of it. After watching his entire life go up and down and in and out, you'd expect a dynamic symphony that would reflect all the powerful events that we see throughout the movie. But instead, the song sounds like Mr. Holland has spent his entire life getting ready to ride in to battle on a huge elephant or something.

I mean, I hate to complain about a movie trying to show you a man's life work, when clearly the movie didn't have a lifetime to work on it. But man, that symphony was just so bad. Like, horrible slapped together in ten minutes bad. It never goes anywhere or does anything or change anyone or evoke feeling or anything. It's just the same dun dun diddle dun dun diddle dun dun junk over and over again.

I really REALLY wanted to enjoy it, but it just makes Mr. Holland look like a joke. "You've been spending your entire life on that??!?!?!?! Maybe you diserve to be an unknown music teacher who gets his funding cut."

Seriously, great movie. But what the hell were they thinking with that final symphony? I think if they had spent at least another day on it it could have been 100 times better.

[–] roghache 18 years ago

I loved this movie as well but like you, have to admit that I hated the symphony. However, the point of the film to me was that Mr. Holland's true opus, his life's work, was the teaching of these students rather than his musical composition. Thus, the fact that I wasn't very taken with the actual opus didn't bother me much. I felt that the music was intended to be all quite modern, something that other viewers might appreciate although I didn't myself! It did seem to work okay as a grand finale movie ending here, probably the main intent as you note, but I wouldn't be rushing out to buy any CD of it!

[–] critiquer 18 years ago

I saw that movie as a kid, and loved it until the notorious American Symphony occured. It's been kind of haunting me since. Really. Just thinking of that electric guitar gives me creeps.

[–] littlebrother_42 16 years ago

"I saw that movie as a kid"

Thanks for making us feel old. :)

[–] jbowmore 15 years ago

The last time I watched the film, a thought occurred to me, and I checked the script (available online).

"Rowena's Theme" is the second movement of "The American Opus".

What we here at the end of the film is just the first movement.

He had planned to write five movements. The first movement took him many years, the second was written on-screen. The rest was finished off-screen later during those years where he was happy as a teacher.

There is even a joke in the script that once he did finish it, he became an even better teacher, because he was no longer distracted by it.

[–] evixir 17 years ago

I have to agree somewhat. I thought "Rowena's Theme" was lovely, but the Opus itself made me glad he'd been a teacher all those years. :/

[–] rbrtgy 17 years ago

I totally agree, too. The electric bass and guitar really didn't fit, in my opinion, and there weren't enough dynamic changes or emotion involved. I understand that perhaps the bass and guitar were there to reflect Mr. Holland's history of playing in clubs and the musical history of rock n roll, but I really couldn't stand their presence. I thought the theme at the beginning and Rowena's theme were far better.

[–] Hellespont99 17 years ago

I agree that the Symphony as played in the film was not great, but I always imagined that we were only hearing part of a larger work, trimmed down to a length fitting for the end of a movie. On that level, I think the piece works very well.

In a way, the score of the entire movie, from beginning to end, can be considered Holland's Symphony.

[–] dbond1138 17 years ago

The film's composer, Michael Kamen, wrote an 8 minute "American Symphony" of which only about 3 min were used in the film's ending. The piece as a whole is actually quite good, but I get the feeling listening to the whole thing that he was influenced to make something much more, as you say, "go get 'em" for the ending. Up until the electric guitar, the symphony is very good.

You should seek out the soundtrack if you want to hear the whole thing.

[–] pcfixinman2025 17 years ago

I have to agree with dbond1138. The entire 8 minute "American Symphony" is a fine piece of work. I, after watching this movie so many times, am finally left with this thought. Because Mr Holland, and the entire Music Dept. were cut from the school budget, Mr. Holland never truly finished his opus!

This makes what we hear in the movie, only a part of a non-complete work.

On a personal note:

I like the guitar in this "American Symphony". The Guitar is a prominent fixture of American culture, as well as many other electrically powered instruments
(Bass Guitar, Electrical Keyboards, etc.)
While symphony's do not contain "electrified" instruments. I feel, those put into this Opus, are well deserved, adn shows that Mr. Hollands'love of all types of
music from every period!

Pcfixinman

[–] jpeterson-8 17 years ago

I also liked the Symphony. Guess having played in a Youth Symphony in one of the largest performing arts schools in the US must not have done me any good.

I also liked the guitar and thought it very appropriate for this setting. What do you think Brahms would have thought of one of Mahler's symphonies? Times change, music changes.

[–] tazmandevil3 17 years ago

Many people here will not know what you mean by comparing Brahms' works to those of Mahler, but I agree with what you're saying. For the end of this movie, concluding with a typical Haydn/Mozart/early Beethoven classical symphony just would not work, because those works require much development throughout the duration of the symphony. At the conclusion of the movie, all that is available is a few minutes, so using something that is admittedly not too deep and lacks development, but has a strong initial punch to it (for example, the use of drumset at the very introduction and electric guitar throughout) works very well. Classical symphonies tend to operate more under the prospect of deferred gratification rather than instant gratification. For the purposes of this film, the opposite (instant gratification) was needed.

And also, I know that some purists detest the use of electronic instruments in a symphonic setting. 90% of the time, I am one of these purists. For example, I hate jazzing up Haydn. But I can make exceptions, one of them being this movie, because it worked well to exemplify Mr. Holland's love of all different types and eras of music.

I think Michael Kamen did a wonderful job. There's no way in hell that I could write anything better - and I highly doubt that anyone else on these boards could, either.

[–] justkit 17 years ago

I agree with everyone on this thread. I LOVE the movie and hate the American Symphony. But I also APPRECIATE the symphony and understand all the reasons it is the way it is.

In order to not have the entire movie ruined by it's ending, I always force myself to believe that what we see and hear is just a section of the whole symphony, and that the parts we don't see and hear are actually far far better!

It never entirely works though. Throughout the film I'm consistantly moved to tears - right up to and including "we are your symphony" - and then all my tears and emotions grind to a sudden halt when the drums begin. Such a shame.

I have no complaints about the music throughout the rest of the film, but I really wish they'd got John Williams in to write the American Symphony!

www.myspace.com/kitellis

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] MikeCosmo06 16 years ago

Brahms was alive when Mahler was writing symphonies. Mahler entered a piece of music into a competition that Brahms was the head of. Of course Mahler lost...

[–] tripleovertime99 17 years ago

I've always found it funny that a peice that took 30 years and is a "symphony" is 3 minutes long.

[–] stapleys 17 years ago

yes, but as enjoyable as the movie was, I doubt most people wanted to spend a half hour listening to an "entire" piece. :)

[–] rose-briane 17 years ago

I always figured that Holland's actual symphony was at least 45 minutes long, and that the part shown at the end of the film is just a hypothetical excerpt from either the openning movement or the finale. Obviously they couldn't include an ENTIRE SYMPHONY at the end! A lot of people can't watch a symphony in the first place, let alone after sitting through an entire movie.

You people are being ridiculous... can't you handle any suspension of disbelief? It's simply NOT PRACTICAL to include an epic symphony at the end of a movie. In fact, it's impossible.

Short as it is, I really like the piece played at the end of the movie. I've always been more of a rock fan and only a casual fan of classical music. And Mr. Holland was writing more for people like me. After all, it is the "American Symphony," not necessarily for fans of European music of centuries past.

[–] jriggenbach 17 years ago

The real problem with the "opus itself," is that it never existed. Up to the point of the final performance, it is made abundantly clear that Mr. Holland *never has time* to finish his symphony. It looks to me as though he never gets beyond notes and a partial piano score. So where did this symphony come from? When did the orchestra have a chance to rehearse it? The whole thing is too phony for belief. What we have here is a basically realistic movie that, in its last few minutes, turns into a total fantasy.

Bah, humbug.

JR

[–] royalkma 17 years ago

He never had time to work on it properly so it wasn't going to be as great as he wanted it to be or to sound as great. The whole point is his opus was the people around him in which he did spend all his time on. He was very touched that they had taken the time to learn his symphony and that he was going to actually conduct but the content of the symphony is really irrelevant.

As for my opinion, considering the time he had to spend on it, I thought it was pretty great. I just thought the name was too generic-"American Symphony" but then I guess its apt since he wrote it over a lifetime as an American.

Cindy

[–] xylonian-1 17 years ago

"He never had time to work on it properly so it wasn't going to be as great as he wanted it to be or to sound as great."

Agree, I saw the problem of the "opus itself" from different viewpoints. IRL, how good would it really turn out to be? He didn't have the time to study/etc. As introduced before, first works of composers are usualy forgetable....as in....

Carl Maria Von Weber: 'The first opera and the first litter of puppies should both be drowned'

The symphony was a bit of a disappointment to an extent, but that was a good move IMO.

Urania to Terpsichore: "You're so quiet. Musing????"

[–] justkit 16 years ago

Fair point. In terms of realism, it works. I just would have liked a 'big finish'. The film mantained such perfect integrity throughout, I would have forgiven a brief moment of indulgence for the ending. But your point is well taken.

[–] Monotonous1307 16 years ago

Basically, this is a movie, and a movie is gonna be about 2 hours, and no longer, at least not a movie like this. To have a complete symphony would cause major problems, because then the movie would be 2 hrs and 30 minutes. I guess they did the best they could for the fact that it was a movie and the need of it had to have some sort of "American Symphony" So, in oreder to appreciate the ending, that needs to be taken into account.

Ha, besides, if this were completely realistic, not ONLY would it have been like 40 to 50 minutes long, but it would not have been rock and roll like, to truly embrace the current orchestral outlook of the end of the 1990s, the 45 minute symphony in 4 movements or so would have been atonal and funky, and NO normal listener would have been able to deal with that.

Bottom line, a truly realistic setting would've made things 1,000 times worse, but on the other hand, i do agree that it could've been better. Perhaps the 8 minute version would've been a little better.

[–] bryandanek 16 years ago

I didn't care for it much except for the fact that it was pretty cool that it kinda of acted as a bridge between classical and modern music.

[–] xylonian-1 16 years ago

"I just would have liked a 'big finish'. The film mantained such perfect integrity throughout, I would have forgiven a brief moment of indulgence for the ending."

I agree...was holding my breath a little....

But....now that he has time on his hands....He can do a full symphony using "Rowena's Theme" as the melody line....

My Life http://www.nga.gov/feature/artnation/vernet/index.shtm

[–] Sam Mamish 16 years ago

I just saw the movie for the first time yesterday. Love the movie.

With regard to the electric guitar, I agree with the posters who think that it was at least partly a reflection of Mr. Holland's love of all kinds of music. And it might have been a means of making this symphony more accessible to younger people--similar to how he used rock 'n' roll to finally get through to his students.

Another thought crossed my mind, though. When he first asked Louis Russ what instrument he wanted to play in the marching band, Louis said, "Electric guitar." Just as the electric guitar didn't have a place in a marching band, it didn't really have a place in a symphony either. But maybe Mr. Holland added the electric guitar as an intensely personal touch in memory of Louis, a student whose life and premature death had meaning to him.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw the thought out there since I hadn't seen it mentioned already.

[–] xylonian-1 16 years ago

Good points....!!!!

My Life http://www.nga.gov/feature/artnation/vernet/index.shtm

[–] agamemnon_b5 16 years ago

I think we should think outside the box and toss out outdated notions as to what instruments should be in a symphony. It wouldn't be "The American Symphony" if it sounded like any other European symphony.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] TheEnormousRoom 16 years ago

> I just cannot like the symphony at the end. In fact, it's so bad to me that I almost feel like it cheapens the rest of the movie.

I'm glad to see that others take this view. I felt after seeing the film, "If that's what he spent his life writing, it's a good thing he taught instead."

I also feel that they make this big deal out of letting him conduct his symphony, when a better tribute would have been to restore funding for the music program.

-- Jon

[–] jgrv-1 16 years ago

My only problem with the "American Symphony" is that we're expected to believe that all these former music students of Mr. Holland could come together and sound like a fully-rehearsed, professional symphony orchestra. Um... no that would NEVER happen. Ever.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] thomaspatrickryan 16 years ago

If you watch the interview with the director, you'll see that they intentionally went with a mediocre symphony as "Mr. Holland's Opus" in the gymnasium. Herek's thought was that if the film closed with an amazing, beautiful symphony, the audience would be left thinking, "Gosh, Mr. Holland was an amazing composer. He shouldn't have wasted his time teaching. He should have been a full-time composer."

Instead, the director got the reaction he wanted from the audience (and most of you). "Well, that was a decent symphony, but's it's a good thing for Mr. Holland, and for all of the students he impacted, that he didn't quit his day job."

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] stephan-128 16 years ago

i agree with the original poster and most of the subsequent poster. very engrossing movie, TERRIBLE Opus. I watched this damn thing til 1 in the morning (and it was longer than 2 hours, at least with commercials). and the last 3 minutes, UGH! And it wasnt the length. The whole damn short thing sounded like fanfare for a sports broadcast. Totally bland and lame. I dont care if he was a nobody, plenty of nobodies have real talent that never gets heard, regardless of if their lives go in other directions and they make impacts in other ways. If the director was trying to make the point that Mr Holland real calling was teaching, well, fine, but he insults nobodies by giving us 30 years of this guy and then that crap fest at the end that he's so proud of. We've seen he does have talent (Rowena's theme) and heart and soul and all that, WHYYYY did that Opus have to suck HARD?!? Terrible decision. Still a good movie.

[–] Cutesomehead 16 years ago

Well sorry guys I am going against everyone on this one. I LOVED the opus at the end. I still get chills every time I hear it. I guess it goes to show that music affects everyone differently. Some people will love a piece and some people will hate it.

[–] gwort80382 16 years ago

The Opus sucks, and it sucks royally. It is an absolute trainwreck.
In fact, it is so awful that I thought it HAD to be intentional, to show that he did the right thing to teach and not to write music. But if that was the case, then the setup and ending of the scene is wrong. They should have shown the dumbfounded faces of the audience that can't believe the crap that is been poured on them, and the embarrassed faces of the musicians. But they didn't. So obviously the Opus was meant to have some value, but unfortunately it had none.

And the title "American Symphony" is an insult to the many great American symphonies that have been written in the last century (and without using E-guitars!). Here are just a few examples, all very different in style:
Charles Ives: Symphonies 2-4.
Aaron Copland: Symphony no.3.
Leonard Bernstein: Symphonies 1-3.
John Corigliano: Symphony no.1.

This is great, meaningful, important music. The Opus is NOT.

[–] JaxonsMom 15 years ago

As much as I love the movie, I only just like American Symphony, because I would much rather listen to August's Rhapsody in the movie August Rush (it makes me cry everytime I hear it), and I agree that the movie wasn't based on the symphony but on Mr. Holland's teachings and on his own life lessons.