how did the little girl not get infected???? - Outbreak (1995) Discussion

[–] TheTollTroll 15 years ago

she only left food for the monkey. She never handled the monkey, or let it spit on her or ate food 'after' it. The monkey wasn't transfering the mutated form of the virus that had gone air born. So being around it did not infect her.

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

The former poster made the correct answer to the opening question. The virus mutated later, after being transferred to humans.

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[–] nginx 11 years ago

I thought the movie made it clear that the monkey with the white face had both the strains of virus, the original one as well as the mutated one. That's why it was important to catch it.

They captured one monkey from the pet store earlier but that only had the original strain of virus which got cured by that E-1101 serum but the serum could not provide cure against the mutated strain.

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither ~ B. Franklin

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[–] actionmanrandell 11 years ago

thats true but it was only a carrier a person has to have the symptoms to transfer teh virus ie coughing etc etc

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] Window555 10 years ago

You are probably right, but I seem to remember (Saw it about 10 years ago and will see it again tomorrow) that when Dustin Hoffman was treating people at the location where Rene Russo was suffering, the virus was in its original form. When Dustin Hoffman noticed that an uninfected patient became infected in a room with no contact with anyone infected. He looked up at the air vent and we traveled (via camera) through the air vent to another room that contained an infected patient. It was at that instant that D.H. realized that the virus (on its own) had mutated and become an “airborne” pathogen. It was at that point that he tried to get the word out that they were up against something that might not be containable unless they moved very quickly. [Fast forward to today - and think how good it is that Ebola (Still a level 4 pathogen, as were both forms in the movie) hasn't mutated into an airborne form].

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[–] txwaho 10 years ago

and think how good it is that Ebola (Still a level 4 pathogen, as were both forms in the movie) hasn't mutated into an airborne form].

Do we know that for an absolute fact?? And who is to say when it just might?
An independent mind is difficult to enslave.

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[–] deatman9 12 years ago

good point yes but the movie clearly shows how the disease spreads though coughing so on a lesser level breathing. If the monkey got close enough which we could assume it did when the little girl was playing with it alone the assumption would be it breathed on her at some point and she should of been sick. I wondered this same thing

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[–] behamut 14 years ago

The way I gathered it, the main reason they wanted the monkey was because they realized it wasn't dying from the disease, which meant it was immune for whatever reason (and had usable antibodies that it's body had produced). It's like when a plague hits a large group of people and masses die, but a few are just seemingly unaffected.

When the little girl was playing with the monkey, it had already beaten the disease and was no longer contagious (much like being with a person a month after they've had the flu, they're not going to give it to you.)

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

Wrong, the monkey was never ill. It had a certain level of natural immunity (and that is why it was important to doctors), therefore not being able to kill the virus but still being able to have it in organism without developing the disease. This is not an uncommon situation, people carriers of germs are most dangerous because nobody expects them to be a source of infection; this is quite common with e.g. streptococcus or salmonella (and this is the reason why people who work with food regularly have medical examinations and tests including checking their stool).

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[–] MrZoolook 13 years ago

Yes, because the correct seating is important to combat infection... :)

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[–] Sarah_Worthing 10 years ago

stool as in feces ¬__¬

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[–] MrZoolook 10 years ago

Yes. Clever boy...

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[–] Sarah_Worthing 10 years ago

And you are not

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[–] MrZoolook 10 years ago

Sarcasm is obviously below you.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] MrZoolook 10 years ago

Yes, you missed the sarcasm in that post. Thanks for the confirmation.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] MrZoolook 10 years ago

Oh, and for the record. 'stool' is a word, not a term. And there's more then 1 meaning for it. You might like to check your facts BEFORE commenting on threads. You might also like to know that reviving 2 year old threads for the sole purpose of causing arguments is typical trollish behaviour. You don't get the sarcasm in my post, and that's fine. Admit it and be done with it, or carry on and be a troll. Your choice.

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[–] Sarah_Worthing 10 years ago

There have been other people posting here in recent months, sarcasm has not been lost, and replying to your own posts is sad.

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[–] MrZoolook 10 years ago

You fail. 'Somebody' just deleted their posts, thus I haven't replied to my own posts. But please, don't stop ignoring the facts just because I've pointed them out now.
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[–] txwaho 10 years ago

Read the books The Hot Zone and The Coming Plague for an education on viruses. A HOST does not die of the virus, just passes it along. So far as I know they have never found the HOST for Ebola. Hence they are unable to make a reliable vaccine.

An independent mind is difficult to enslave.

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[–] stevenackerman69 14 years ago

I think the monkey never bit her or scratched her, so the virus didn't get into her body. With the store owner, he was scratched, and with Jimbo, the monkey spat in his face.

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[–] jkitteraljr 14 years ago

The virus did not spontaneously mutate. Remember, Casey concludes that the monkey was carrying both strains. That is why the monkey's blood worked as an antiserum to Cedar Creek Motaba. Therefore, the monkey WAS carrying the airborne strain. The girl was just really lucky, as was Sam and Salt when they captured it. Either that, or it was a plot hole in the storyline.

"Life's a bitch, and she"s in heat."

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[–] brandy_walker82 13 years ago

Being a carrier and able to infect is different than being infected. There are prostitutes in Africa that carry the HIV virus, but they are not affected, but they can infect someone with the virus.

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[–] MrZoolook 13 years ago

So... you're saying that ONLY prostitutes can carry the virus, and even then, ONLY if they are active in or from an African country?

Surely you neither need to be either a prostitute OR in an African country to carry the HIV virus? Far be it from me to be politically correct (and believe me I am not), but saying "prostitutes in Africa carry the HIV virus" shows a huge generalisation, along with showing exactly why it was so prevalent in Western societies. HIV was, and is a global virus, and is not restricted to any demographic. The complacency in your statement is wrong, and should be discouraged... did they also tell you that it is transmitted by hand-shake... What do they teach you guys nowadays???

That is all!

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[–] stevielanding 9 years ago

That wasn't said at all.

It's been said before, but it bears repeating: you are sad.

Mairzy doats and dozy doats, but liddle lamzi nothing.

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[–] MrZoolook 9 years ago

Something else that's been said before is that reviving years old threads is what trolls do. Good day!

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[–] stevielanding 9 years ago

Do you think this is a message board or a chat room?

Answer quick. Don't let the post get old.

Mairzy doats and dozy doats, but liddle lamzi nothing.

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[–] MrZoolook 9 years ago

Aww, butt hurt are you! I'm so sorry your parents were too incompetent to raise children unable to accept a name calling. In the big wide world it's a part of growing up though.

Perhaps one day soon, you can play with grown up toys like the internet. But I think it's past your bed time now. Settle down so you can go to sleepy byes!

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

Casey made this conclusion but later his theory was withdrawn (abandoned). It would be a very unusual, most unlikely situation that a same organism would be infected by two (very rare!) forms of a same virus. It became obvious that the virus mutated later, after the infection had been transferred to humans. So there was no danger for Sam and Salt, and they knew it, also if the girl hadn't been infected before there was no danger for her during the capturing.

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[–] jkitteraljr 13 years ago

If the monkey wasn't carrying both srains, then tracking it down and capturing it would have been pointless, considering it would have been carrying the antibodies for only the original strain. It had to be carrying both strains.

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

Great remark, I've never thought about it! It seems to be a flaw both in a movie and in my analysis...

But, maybe (just maybe!) the strains weren't so different (in the terms of immunological reactions - antibodies), so both strains could be cured by same serum. The mutation when the transmission changes from contact with body fluids to aerosols is a big one for its epidemiology, however it doesn't necessarily have to change the structure so much in the part responsible for antibodies activity. Certainly, you can't be sure till you check it...

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[–] jkitteraljr 13 years ago

If that was the case, then E-1101, the antiserum to the Motaba strain, would have worked against the Cedar Creek strain. It did not.

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

Yes, this is something I can't argue about.

But do you want to say that the mutation happened in the monkey? If so, and if the antigen structure was so different, how could the monkey survive? He developed immunity against the Motaba strain, but if Cedar Creek strain appeared in him, there was no immunity that would save him...

Or was it because of the species difference that the new strain was less lethal to monkeys than to humans?

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[–] jkitteraljr 13 years ago

Your second point holds merit. It's definitely a possibility that the monkey's immune system was strong enough to fight off the virus.
As for your first question, what I'm saying is, the monkey was carrying both strains. He didn't have to develop immunity. Some diseases don't cause illness in nonhumans for many possible reasons, including evolution/natural selection. The monkey could have been born with immunity to both strains, but spreading both of them around.

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

Well, we are going deeper into immunology and that seems to be your field more than mine, so I'll ask you two questions.

If the monkey survived both strains without problems because of the species difference, then why did the monkey in pet shop develop a disease?

And, if there is so big species-dependent immunological difference between monkey and humans when coping with the virus, wouldn't it be possible (or even probable) that antibodies wouldn't fit to human immune system? Or, even if they did, is it realistic that the serum could be produced within few hours after they had caught the monkey?

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[–] jkitteraljr 13 years ago

The monkey in the pet shop must have been born in a part of the world where there was no Motaba resistance. Remember, the infectious monkey came from a region called Motaba River Valley, where it's ancestors must have been exposed to the virus.

Your second question is where the movie deviates from reality. Even if the monkey's antibodies did work in humans, it would take some time and work to make them compatible, a few months at the very soonest. They certainly wouldn't have an antiserum within a couple of hours, even using the old antiserum as a blueprint.

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[–] przgzr 13 years ago

So, if I understood correctly your explanation - all monkeys in Motaba region developed immunity due to generations' exposition, but the virus was otherwise equally virulent to humans and monkeys (so it's not like swine fever /pig plague that kills pigs but is harmless to humans, or smallpox that were limited to humans)? That makes sense...

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[–] jkitteraljr 13 years ago

Exactly :)

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[–] cheshirecat9 13 years ago

ok I paid close attention and have some knowledge of zoonosis, so although the rest of you all tried, you got it wrong. the patient with the saliva transmitted version (Jimbo) of the virus had water spit on him, the man in the pet shop was scratched. the two mutations of the same virus transmitted through two dif fluids. the man who spread the virus through the air at the theater had been exposed to the pet store man's blood. the monkey sitting next to the host in the pet store ate some of the host's banana thats how he got the strain that was cured by E-1101 but the towns residents were not. hope that helps clear it up.
oh, and they said the virus couldn't mutate that fast so it had mutated before the storyline and the host carried both. no plot holes. I hate plot holes.

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[–] KartofflMuter 13 years ago

It's a movie-with big holes anyway since the capuchin monkey is NOT found in Africa but South America. Sheesh.

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[–] hubcap18 12 years ago

Capuchin monkeys can also be found in Central America, I've seen them in their natural habitat in Costa Rica.

There's no "I" in team, but there is an "m" and an "e."

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[–] mojo2004 11 years ago

Even if the monkey's antibodies did work in humans, it would take some time and work to make them compatible, a few months at the very soonest. They certainly wouldn't have an antiserum within a couple of hours, even using the old antiserum as a blueprint.

That was the most eye-rolling part of the movie. Without knowing all that the monkey could have picked up they grab it take it back to a mobile lab make an antiserum in the blink of an eye and give it to humans?!

Sheldon:"Was the starfish wearing boxer shorts? Because you might have been watching Nickelodeon."

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[–] nginx 11 years ago

I think this is most probably the correct answer. The monkey carries both strains but the virus only mutates after the monkey physically transfers to a human by biting or scratching. So I guess only humans can spread the airborne virus without contact. The monkey is already immune to the virus, so it makes sense that the virus is neither mutating or infecting inside it.

But hey I am not a biologist and getting too technical ruins the fun of watching movies. So I'll just leave it at that.

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither ~ B. Franklin

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[–] bobby_allen 12 years ago

The bigger plot hole was the Thai ship. That Thai seaman died and they allowed the ship to sail on to its destination with the virus.

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[–] 12 years ago

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