So why did John Whitney...
drink that stuff that turned him into the monster?
shareHe didn't know what it would do.
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MovieChat Forums > The Relic (1997) Discussion > So why did John Whitney...
A better question would be, "why did the tribe give it to him?" Later in the movie it is stated that the tribe would summon up this monster to destroy an enemy tribe. Who did they want destroyed this time? Americans? Museum patrons? Did the book explain any of this?
KS
Yes it is explained in the book. The tribe is hostile towards the outsiders, and Whittlesey (as he's called in book) was tortured and forced fed those things. Their territory was threatened by deforestation by the local government and the Kothoga tribe (not Zenzera? like in the movie) must have wanted to use Whittlesey, an outsider, to wreak havoc towards the their enemies. But Whittlesey made his way back, he was pretty much transformed before he left the port.
shareGreat info - thanks Night_Wolf.
Since you've read and have insight - can you offer an explanation as to why he was at the dock? He wanted crates bound for museum to be taken back off ship? Why?
Of course at the end of that scene he is bellowing like a mad-man, but up to that moment he was communicating - pleading with the ship's captain in clear lucid manner.
So, what's that whole dock-side scene about?
Spoilers welcome, thank you.
BTW - I really like this movie.
***SPOILERS***
In the book John never leaves the Amazon basin til it's on verge of extinction and by that time he has transformed into the creature. He has spent nearly a year in the Amazon basin from the day after his capture. The scene at the docks in the movie is different, while in the original story he arrives at the docks as the creature hiding in the cargo hold where the crates were ready to be sent back to the museum. He kills a random person over at the docks, this is the first lead FBI agent Pendergast picks up on in New Orleans. I don't know how much you know about Pendergast but he was the original hero who kills the creature with help of Margo. Once the crate get to the museum, with creature following their trail, it lies there hidden for years. It's first kill was soon after the crates had been moved into the museum. But when it noticed its actions were getting attention, it became more of a sparse hunter and concealed the kills (usually homeless or unknowns etc). This went on til the crates were moved into a secure area where creature had no access to the hormone-ridden plant, therefore it started hunting more fiercely again because it needed more hormones as human brain was a poor substitute for them. Then you can pretty much see what happens as the movie got it on point.
In my opinion, they should have extended the movie at least 30 more minutes so it could build its own mythos as the book did. The mystery spans 7 years in the book, it would have been neat to have all those elements present to give the movie that ominous feel of the book. The best thing about the movie for me is its music, I listen to it as I read sections of the book sometimes. Makes for interesting read. Overall, I love the movie too as I saw the movie first and then read the book, so something has to be good about it to compel me to read it :)
Thank You Night_Wolf,
In the movie - it seems there were two sets of crates?
-- the first crate - John (still human) sneaks aboard and opens a crate and then goes crazy - bellowing madly.
Does John react that way because he is discovering that the crate is not the one he was looking for? - or why such a reaction?
-- the second crate - a set of crates was left behind on the dock, the ship sailed off without it. These crates were later transported to the museum. These crates contained this animal-altering drug?
So, how would John (now the monster?) have found his way to the museum?
Maybe there was still enough of John left inside the beast, that he remembered those cavernous dank bowels beneath the museum - a perfect place for such a beast to take up residence. And, "maybe" there was even enough of John left in the beast to figure that the crates he was looking for would eventually be delivered to the museum - an even greater motivation/explanation for why he ended up lurking there?
"But when it noticed its actions were getting attention, it became more of a sparse hunter and concealed the kills (usually homeless or unknowns etc)."
When I saw the veritable "bone yard" of his victims in the tunnel beneath the museum, my first reaction was just that - this creature has been down here for years.
Of course, by the end of the movie - the former John is nearly all consumed by the beast transformation, but if we allow that this transformation were to occur slowly over time - then in the first couple of phases - John would have been very much in residence. Kind of like an addicted junky - willing to do anything to get his fix - he would have used his human knowledge single mindedly in pursuit of the hormone (pursuit of the crates left behind by the first ship / setting up shop beneath the museum; attacking the homeless because they wouldn't be missed; etc.)
Then, once he finally consumed the hormones that later arrived his transformation into the avenging all out monster was complete (except for the tiniest glimmer of recognition it shows for Margo at the very end).
Then, the all out ravages began.
"
In my opinion, they should have extended the movie at least 30 more minutes so it could build its own mythos as the book did."
I agree!
I don't mind - even enjoy - a movie that makes you look for clues; figure things out on your own - - but this film left out to much critical info.
Still, thanks to your input - I will watch it again someday and enjoy it even more.
thanks very much
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The issue of the crates started with the expedition itself. John was paired up with another, more contentious fellow from the museum to go with him, Maxwell. He was an anthropologist by occupation who had found some rare species of plants during the expedition. But the purpose of the expedition was to find the legendary Kothoga tribe. Maxwell thought they were extinct, while John believed they were hiding out somewhere on the tepui. Besides they didn't have permission of the local government to go to the tepui, therefore Maxwell and John had a falling out. Max decided to go back with his collection of plants while John went on in search of the tribe, the former thought the latter was not playing by the rules. Max had sent the his own crates back, though he died in the plane crash (believed to be result of some curse attached to the expedition), the crates were sent back separately. Those crates contained the Mbwun plant, used as packing material (different from what Max found). It should be noted that the Mbwun plant seemingly went unnoticed by everyone til Margo made the connection. It was simply used as packing material.
Then some problems occurred with John's group as one of the members disappeared in the jungle. By that time he had discovered an abandoned hut which contained the figurine of the Mbwun (the plant and creature are both referred to as such). So he used the same plant to pack up his crate with figurine inside and sent it back with the only remaining member of his group. It was later that day he got captured.
So naturally John had made the connection too about the Mbwun plant etc. after having been forced fed those leaves. Thus, he knew where to go after the original source of those plants was destroyed.
Maybe there was still enough of John left inside the beast, that he remembered those cavernous dank bowels beneath the museum - a perfect place for such a beast to take up residence. And, "maybe" there was even enough of John left in the beast to figure that the crates he was looking for would eventually be delivered to the museum - an even greater motivation/explanation for why he ended up lurking there?
Precisely.
Of course, by the end of the movie - the former John is nearly all consumed by the beast transformation, but if we allow that this transformation were to occur slowly over time - then in the first couple of phases - John would have been very much in residence. Kind of like an addicted junky - willing to do anything to get his fix - he would have used his human knowledge single mindedly in pursuit of the hormone (pursuit of the crates left behind by the first ship / setting up shop beneath the museum; attacking the homeless because they wouldn't be missed; etc.)
You basically described how it is in the book. Although he had never completely forgotten its humanity. In that boneyard, the creature had hung a locket with the family crest of its former self. Probably as a reminder and the only connection to what it was before. Similarly to what you said, my take is that it was very much cognizant of its human self but because of the influx of those hormones and its current physiology, other more feral instincts had taken over. Despite ones best efforts, you can't fight off what is innate. I can't imagine the mental torture the creature/ the man must have suffered. In the book the creature was said to be angry and lonely with unfathomable sadness. All the more reason I am inclined to think John was suffering all that time. share
Thanks for filling in the blanks Night_Wolf.
I rated this movie a "7", because I felt the failings were out-weighed by greater qualities (cast, performances, character development - except for John's, dialogue, photography). I don't remember the soundtrack - but that can be a good sign as well. I wasn't even bothered by the lighting which so many complain about.
The plight of "the transformed" is so often a key element - if not "the story": wolf-man, vampire, Hulk, invisible man, x-men, Swamp Thing, etc.
Although I can understand that maybe the director didn't want to devote too much attention to Johns' plight - not enough time... - taking focus away from detective and Margo.
But, providing more back-story would have made this such a better movie.
I don't suppose there is a DVD with the director providing this kind of info.
I can understand that people don't want to have to work for their entertainment or make allowances; this is not what they signed up for. For their money they want a seamless unfoldment.
But, I was entertained and will watch again.
thanks
It was my pleasure to help out. I love the story and welcome any chance to help out a fellow enthusiast.
I don't suppose there is a DVD with the director providing this kind of info.
As matter of fact there is a Blu-ray Audio Commentary, but it's one of the worst commentaries I've ever heard from a director. All he talks about is technical design of the movie, nothing much to do with the narrative. Which is unfortunate, such a wasted opportunity.
Although I can understand that maybe the director didn't want to devote too much attention to Johns' plight - not enough time... - taking focus away from detective and Margo.
But, providing more back-story would have made this such a better movie
Earlier script for the movie was much more faithful to the source material, despite the small changes. The creature was depicted with bit of sympathy, at one point Margo was able to communicate with John/creature. Although I don't know the reason for discarding the better material for this.
Regardless of its obvious flaws, I too enjoy the movie and would rate it 7-8 easy since it's engrossing. But you know, it is much more fun and immersive when you have to piece together bits of information yourself. That way there is little bit of interaction. Same way with video games, you can sift through main missions but if you want to get full experience of the story, you have to do all the side quests and/or read up every piece of note you find. Just as it is in the book, not much time is spent on the creature but once you discover who it was, you read it again to pick up on hidden details. That's only my opinion, I'm sure some would like it to be a seamless ride. share
I'm glad I'm not the only person who loves the book. I'm just sad they didn't actually put Pendergast into it and killed two characters that made the follow up book impossible. I love the entire series that Preston and Childs have put together. If anyone who hasn't read the book and the sequel Reliquary, let alone all the other books that follow, I highly recommend them.
shareMaybe it was an ayahuasca ritual that went horribly wrong
shareMost Westerners don't know what they're getting into when they're in other parts of the World, he was hapless & seemed shocked at what happened. Almost if he had been shielded from the true reality that exists in the World.
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