From a Queen to a Senator... - Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) Discussion

[–] Linebeck-3 8 years ago

One of the many very strange things in these movies is that the monarch of Naboo is democratically elected. In Episode II, Padme explains that after her two terms ended there was talk of amending the constitution but she refused. The new queen then offered her the position of Senator.

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[–] shailosweetkittycat 8 years ago

Oh WOW! OK- I had no knowledge of this transition. Usually when I think of Royalty (of sorts i.e. King, Queen) an entire lifespan of reign is what comes to mind. Usually a "term" applies to political positions not Royalty... So this was the confusion.

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[–] AutoexecBatman 8 years ago

The confusion is not on your part but on the part of George Lucas.

The difference between a king and a president or prime minister is that a monarch is for life, and the position is inherited, not elected. Padme was only a president or prime minister, but calling her 'Queen' was his half-assed way of explaining why Leia is a princess, i.e. a daughter of a queen.

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[–] shailosweetkittycat 8 years ago

Oh wow I see this now... Also Leia being raised by her Aunt and Uncle and still carrying the throne behind her name is also sorta of lame. If it's not based on bloodline to be royalty (per Lucas) than why can Leia still carry the title "princess?" ... :/

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

The explanation of Leia beings princess stems from the fact that she was a member of the royal house organa with her adoptive mother being the Queen of Alderaan and her father Bail organa being prince consort. With that said, it was absolutely stupid to have an elected monarchy, and worse, electing a 14 year old girl. It would have made sense had inherited the throne from a deceased parent. Because she was thrust into the position sooner than expected, her character arch could have about the weight of proving herself as a worthy monarch. Her abruptly gaining the position would also explain her naivety as one would expect an elected ruler to have more wisdom dealing with politics. Another thing it would have is that her being queen would make her being with Anakin forbidden on her part as well as Anakin being Jedi on his. It would cause issues as he wouldn't be a desirable consort in the eyes of to the naboo.

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[–] InternationaleClique 8 years ago

The difference between a king and a president or prime minister is that a monarch is for life, and the position is inherited, not elected.

The earliest monarchs in Europe were elected. Nothing odd about this.

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[–] AutoexecBatman 8 years ago

No, they weren't. You are thinking of the Holy Roman Emperor, that was an elected position, but there was only a handful of electors (I think 5 or 6) and the election was for life, he was never up for re-election and was not subject to term limits.

Right now the only elected monarch in the world is the Pope, a position which, again, is for life, or until resignation, again, with no re-election and no term limits.

There is no precedent anywhere for the popular election of a king, who is elected to fixed term in office and subject to re-election.

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[–] InternationaleClique 8 years ago

The German tribes elected their kings long before the Roman Empire. The Romans did it before the Republic, the Macedonians did it, and on the list goes.

Nothing odd about it.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Movie_Buff_Brad 8 years ago

but calling her 'Queen' was his half-assed way of explaining why Leia is a princess, i.e. a daughter of a queen.

That's probably giving him too much credit. I think it was to stick her into as many royal dresses as possible, figuring a line of sophisticated President Padme dolls wouldn't sell as much.

FYC: Keanu Reeves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvaCWTkSXdE

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[–] TheCountDracula 8 years ago

That's probably giving him too much credit. I think it was to stick her into as many royal dresses as possible, figuring a line of sophisticated President Padme dolls wouldn't sell as much.

lol

💀 "That fückin' Flowers." - Lucas Davenport

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[–] jakubmike 8 years ago

and the position is inherited, not elected.

Poland had elected kings.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

Did they elect adolescent children?

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[–] jakubmike 8 years ago

Well no

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

Of course not, that what the problem of making a 14 year old an elected Queen of a planet. It would have made more sense to the story and audience to have a young girl who was thrown into the position before it was her time. The Federation would be the young Queens test of her leadership she was too young for and would explain why she was so naïve. I think that is why people had a hard time accepting the electoral monarchy.

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[–] ChrEberle 8 years ago

The whole prequel-trilogy is halfassed as halfassed can be. Everything has simply been written in the most stupid, absurd and illogical way just to SOMEHOW fit with the Original Trilogy. It's like really bad fanfiction that happens because there's so many fans that focus too much on the unimportant stuff of a story in favor of action, explosions, sex etc.

The terrible irony is that the man who invented STAR WARS also deconstructed it!

NightAxe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJzZ4jkYd40

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[–] chriscougar7 8 years ago

Lol, Leia wasnt a princess because Padme was a Queen. Her identity was hidden. They make it clear that she is Queen based on election and her term was over but its still something that can be missed and in the PT people miss a lot of things because they are too busy blindly hating it, even if it does deserve legit criticism

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[–] shailosweetkittycat 8 years ago

Sorry but this is true... I gathered this also.

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[–] AutoexecBatman 8 years ago

By definition, a monarch is someone who reigns for life, or until they voluntarily relinquish the title through abdication. There is no such thing as a monarch being elected to a fixed term of office and subject to term limits.

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

As International Critique already pointed out, the monarch could be elected. In my country did it twice in the beginning of the 20th century for example. Anyway, Lucas is well educated in the European history. In the Galactic REPUBLIC which also a federation, there were planet systems with monarchs and also with another types of governors. So Padme isn't noble, i.e. part of the aristocracy, she is a politician and was educated to be a politician as she told to Anakin in the Naboo scenes.

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[–] AutoexecBatman 8 years ago

There have been elected monarchs in the sense that there have been monarchs who were chosen by the nobility or by Parliament or something, but there has been a monarch who was POPULARLY elected.

One of the problems with monarchy as a form of government is that there is often no clear successor, and this tends to lead to frequent crises of succession, which usually lead to civil wars. So, most countries which have a monarchy have usually found a way to resolve crisis of succession by having the nobility choose a king, or having Parliament choose a king (Parliament and the nobility usually being the exact same thing), but there has NEVER been a country which held a popular election for a king. And there has certainly never been a country where the king is subject to elected to a fixed term of office and subject to re-election and term limits.

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

As I said already, the case of my country is very different. We talk about the beginning of the 20th century, after all and no aristocracy matters here. I will skip the details, but generally the monarchy of this period of the history of my country is more a service than a title. And it is not the only case. I even don't say king, because no matter that my country is very old, and we had monarchs, but they were never kings. King is a specific kind of monarch in the European history, but that are details. Lucas uses this word more deliberately and for me that is fine, because is explained enough. Queen in Naboo is clearly a political service.
The conception of the aristocracy or the noble class is very specific and I would say very Medieval-European ( is not that in other countries no existed something like that but it was different than the typical West European Medieval case) so we can’t speculate if there is any aristocracy in the Galaxy far away ( I mean, based on films, I don’t know what is in the so called Extended Universe).

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

Hi, I have a quick question, I see you mention several times that your country has/had electoral monarchs, what country is it that you live in? I tried to see my if you mentioned it in you post but I could not find it, so sorry if I missed it.

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

We had that. :) Now we are republic. Here is the story of the period when we had an elected monarchs, if you are interested in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bulgaria_%281878%E2%80%931946%29. Well, in the past we had an unelected monarchs, also, but this is more usual, if I can say so.

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[–] AutoexecBatman 8 years ago

I see nothing in the history of Bulgaria which says that the monarchs were popularly elected to a fixed term of office, subject to re-election and term limits, in fact, when I look through the history of Bulgaria it appears that all of the monarchs of Bulgaria were related to a previous monarch, usually first born son.

But it is clear that is a nobility in the Star Wars universe because Dooku is a Count.

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

Not at all. In the medieval times was different, but in this period, no. The strange thing is that he must be foreigner. Anyway, Batenberg was elected by the Parliament that has nothing to the with the Noble Courts in the medieval Europe ( and even was a special type one, with larger number of delegates to be more democratic, etc., etc.) and I think even in the article of Wikipedia is described exactly that. Ferdinand also was. After that the rules changes a bit, the third one is son to the second one, I didn't say that the monarch couldn't be heir just that could be elected.

And to the film: Dooku wasn't from Naboo. So it is not obligatory that Naboo should have aristocracy, also count could be some kind of governor, too. I'm not sure that Lucas emphasize on the social stratification in the Republic. Is obvious that ‘abroad’ the things are bad, as is in Tatooine, where there is slavery, but in the Republic.. I'm not sure. They call Padme 'milady' but also I'm not sure if it is a real title or just an honorable thing like madam/Mrs.

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[–] boonjj 8 years ago

From what ive read naboo is a very cultured and artsy world. So I actually likenthe idea of them being openn to electing young ones into positions of power. if theyre educated enough and still carry that young sense of idealism then who knows maybe they can make better leaders than older folk who are too established intheir ways.

I wonder if that is in fact the reason padme was elected - through merit and genuine support - or was she was in some special position beforehand..?

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] boonjj 8 years ago

That is true! Clearly the naboo are very open to young leaders.

After reading a few articles, it indeed appears that the naboo elect young leaders due to their childish/pure outlook. Apparently this is largely in response to their formers leaders being older men who were prone to corruption, which also explains why they now favour females (the next 3 queens after padme were also young women). Interesting!

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

When Padme and Anakin are in the field with the waterfall she talks about her first crash, named Palo. But she explained that they meet in some program for future politicians or something like that but Palo quits and after the program she is already in political service. And in the beginning the program she is 12 years old. So the politics is maybe like a specialized service in Naboo and they begin to study for politicians even in high school. Padme wasn't the youngest queen ever elected, she pointed on that.

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[–] aillas55 8 years ago

Why was she elected. What would her campaign have been like?

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[–] tonygea 8 years ago

Well, this is a bizarre question. Why she should she have a campaign? The campaign is an additional 'resource" to the elections, they exist in how to say it,. more market oriented countries. In another courtiers there are no campaigns ( in a classical meaning of that word). The elections could be some type of contest, or trials, or I don't know what. Naboo is very interesting world. It is very feminine and also it respects the innocence. That's why all the Naboo queens are so young. In the real world there are occasions where important social choices are made by younger individuals, even by children, because people believe that their innocence and purity will lead them to right choice. I'm curios to understand more of the ideas of Lucas behind Naboo, because it is my favorite world of SW .

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[–] RoyWilliamsbeatsCoachK 8 years ago

The story would have worked better if she was royalty instead of elected. Besides the absurdity of electing a 14 year old, it makes her seem like she has more to lose in Episode 1 when her planet is invaded because it truly would be "her planet."

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[–] boonjj 8 years ago

On the other hand padme not being royalty strengthens her character because it means she got elected only by merit and then the people wanted to amend the constitution just so she could stay on longer which again highgliths just highly the people regarded her.

Her caring so much about her planet out of a pure heart and free will speaks much more to her giving character than if was merely beholden to the role out of duty, in my opinion.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

It would have made sense to have her inherit the throne. It would actually be more pressure on her to as she unexpectedly was thrown into the position. Her job would be her life, and she would be more stressed to prove she can protect her people. It would explain the ineptness and nativity she displayed. Why would they elect adolescent girls who have no experience or wisdom to make their making major decisions? Also, it would be a good explanation on Padme's part, why she would have to hide her relationship with Anakin.

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[–] showmehow321 8 years ago

guys. it's star wars. their politics don't have to match ours. if in the star wars universe queens are elected, that's the way it goes. geez.

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[–] lrdcharlton 8 years ago

Simple-minded one, Star Wars is set up as a reflection of real world politics and government. For us to understand their actions and movements it has t make sense, which in this case it does not. For some reason, in a failed attempt to seem different, Lucas decided to make illogical twists. People that have brains and atleast average intelligence don't just take what is handed to them without question. It seems you are the perfect example of their target audience.

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[–] 8 years ago

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