From http://filmadelphia.org/blog/?p=793 :
"Q: Was the film Perfect Blue an inspiration for this film?
A: Not really, there are similarities between the films, but it wasn’t influenced by it. It really came out of Swan Lake the Ballet, we wanted to dramatize the ballet, that’s why it’s kind of up here and down there, because ballet is big and small in lots of ways."
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"He's openly admitted in the past that he loves Perfect Blue,"
Where? All we know is he allegedly got the remake rights. If he loved PB, though, he'd say something, especially given that he owes Kon for Requiem, and thus the rest of his career.
"why is it so hard to believe him?"
Same reason it was hard to believe that Nolan didn't watch many movies, and thus couldn't have seen Paprika?
"He's saying that Perfect Blue didn't inspire the film, but that doesn't mean that Perfect Blue didn't influence any scenes."
It sounds like he's denying both arguments to me.
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Day: "go listen to the director's commentary of Requiem, he talks about Perfect Blue and the influence of the bathtub scene. He's also mentioned in a few interviews in the past that he's a huge fan of that film."
Fair enough on Requiem, but which interviews? I am only aware of a blog entry where Kon writes about visiting him.
" Also, he doesn't "allegedly" own the rights to Perfect Blue, he DOES own the rights."
Talking about a film influencing a film is not the same as owning the remake rights to the former.
"Aronofsky made a fair and legal purchase, what does he owe Kon?"
It might be legal, but definitely not fair, considering Kon only allegedly got 60 grand for it, while Aronofsky gets all the glory. And I've already said what Darren owes Kon-a thank you and an acknowledgement of him after he died.
"He certainly doesn't owe him the rest of his career, which is one of the most asinine statements I've ever seen someone make."
What was he doing between Pi and Requiem again? Which movie gave him the keys to Wolverine 2 and might be his next big shot at an Oscar for Best Director? Which movie gave him his first shot at Oscar in the first place? The only real hit he had until now was because of The Wrestler, and Rourke gets at least half the credit for its success.
"this is apples and oranges, as Aronofsky has openly-admitted he's a fan of Perfect Blue, where as Nolan has never given credit to Kon in the first place."
He admitted that he watched PB, but hasn't said anything since, even though his latest movie was clearly borrowed from PB. Nolan at least indirectly acknowledged Kon after enough pressure.
"The journalist out-right asked him if Perfect Blue influenced the entirety of Black Swan, which it clearly doesn't. "
It clearly doesn't, even though he acknowledges similarities, which is just bs, of course.
"Has the journalist asked if Perfect Blue influenced SOME scenes or certain themes of the film, Aronofsky may have given a better answer."
Aronofsky did give his answer. He said that it influenced none of the movie.
And what you're saying is just semantics, especially since his PR people are already pulling the same "original" meme that Nolan did with Inception.
Evangelion: *yawn* That's not what he was saying before.
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/a-man-and-his-dream-christopher-nolan-and-inception/
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I'll tackle the rest, too, but even if it's false, it still forced Nolan to at least get his flunky Leo to admit some Japanese influence on Inception, even though it was for Miyazaki and Kurosawa. So, as far as I'm concerned, it's the same thing. Hence why I said "indirectly" acknowledged Paprika.
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"like I said, the interviews were from several years ago... but in the Requiem DVD he openly admits that he loves Perfect Blue, which is why he purchased the rights."
Well, I'm sure you can scan 'em if you've seen 'em. And could you provide a transcript of the Requiem thing? Either way, though, he's certainly singing a different tune, now, which actually makes him look worse than Nolan.
"how is it not fair? It's not like someone held a gun to Kon's head or the company that owned the film and forced them to sell the rights for $60k."
If they had really known what that film was worth as a remake, they definitely would've gotten more money for it. The only reason they low-balled themselves was that Kon was a small-time filmmaker-assuming he even got a cut of the deal, of course.
"The FACT is, Aronofsky made a fair purchase, credited Perfect Blue in the ROAD DVD, as well as in interviews in the past."
Well, while you're at it, you might as well call how we bought New York from the Indians a fair purchase.
"He doesn't owe him anything, he paid for the rights fair and square, gave some daps to Kon, and then made his own material post-Requiem. Again, what does he owe Kon?"
His Oscar glory and his pay-check gigs? If Marty can acknowledge Andrew Lau after paying for Infernal Affairs, why is it wrong for Aronofsky to do the same-especially since at least it should be an honor enough to have your work get re-made by Scorcese.
"actually, between PI and Requiem, he was coming up with a concept for Batman: Year One."
And how did that work out again?
"The Wrestler did, which Kon played ZERO influence on."
Last time I checked, I don't recall him being name-dropped on Wolvie 2 until Black Swan.
"PI and Requiem were both critical darlings,"
But only one of them won the gold.
"success isn't merited by award accolades."
Well, then by that logic, you could argue that Darren owes Kon even more, since he was only a cult director until Requiem. After that is when he officially hit the big time.
"Therefore, your comments about Oscar nominations is completely null and void, as Aronofsky was a successful film maker long before The Wrestler,"
I don't remember Fountain being a hit. In fact, last time I checked, it was a disappointment. And Requiem didn't make jack, even with the gold. But the award did give him more job offers.
"and certainly before he ever purchased the rights for Perfect Blue."
For its budget, Pi made out alright, but it never got a wider release than 68 theaters, and was thus still niche in terms of mainstream recognition.
"He has praised Perfect Blue and has even stated he purchased the rights for that film because of how much he enjoys it."
Apparently, he enjoys it enough to take credit for it.
"Also, you're giving a bit too much credit to Kon for Black Swan, considering the overall feel for that film doesn't give a Perfect Blue vibe.If anything, one is more justified by comparing Black Swan to either The Red Shoes or The Piano Teacher"
Well, technically, the argument goes that both works borrow from Dostoevsky's Double, but Kon did the modern version first, so...
"I suggest you stop riding Kon's dick so hard, because you're being completely oblivious to the other influences for Aronofsky's latest film."
Oh, I'm not oblivious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAYIYt0EeYs
"Just because he says the film wasn't primarily influenced by Perfect Blue, that doesn't mean he's saying that Perfect Blue had no influence at all."
Well, he could've noted any influence, but until he does, it's currently implicit that he's written off PB.
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"I'm sure they'll have a copy of RFAD for you, just so you can listen to the director's commentary and finally keep your dick beaters away from the keyboard."
Figured you had the DVD yourself, so, not interested. I'll support Requiem when he gives his condolences to Kon.
"this is a fallacious claim based off of hypoethetical nonsense. You can't determine how much Perfect Blue's rights are worth just because of how much you love it and how high of a standard you choose to hold it to."
Tell that to Toho after The Ring.
"If anything, one could argue that Aronofsky over-paid, as anime in general, wasn't booming in the west during the early 2000s, certainly not Kon's work, anyway."
Um, Princess Mononoke did gang-busters on DVD, Gundam Wing and DBZ had huge ratings on CN, and Perfect Blue made $100,000 in the U.S. on 1+ theaters. So, not true. Even if that were the case, though, then he still went to a lot of trouble for it, when he was coasting on his own alleged success after Pi, and yet no one questioned why.
"Would you care to provide some substantial resources that backs up this claim?"
How about the fact that PB was his debut and it almost went straight to video, and wasn't even going to be animated at one point?
"I'm sure if Kon or the studio that distributed Perfect Blue felt low-balled, they would have mentioned it later on in their careers."
Well, considering that middle-men tend to handle these things in Japan, Kon may not have even had a say in the matter. Get someone to translate http://konstone.s-kon.net/modules/notebook/archives/60 and decide for yourself.
"Hell, if they had felt low-balled in any regard, they could have just told Aronofsky to get f#cked. But guess what? They didn't."
Again, they did not realize the true value of the property, especially since it was niche in Japan.
"yes, let's draw parallels between a medium of entertainment being fairly purchased by a director that respects the owners work, to a slaughter of human beings."
They didn't slaughter 'em in New York, just bought the place from 'em for some necklaces. Though, considering how Hollywood *doesn't* get how to properly adapt source material, you could call what they do with remakes a "type" of hatchet job.
"Again, Oscar accolades mean jack, especially when it comes to Perfect Blue or Satoshi Kon."
Tell that to Miyazaki.
"However, since you're so hell-bent on Aronofsky's award accomplishments pre-Black Swan, you can just go look up the independent, yet still important awards he's won for PI, Black Swan, and yes, even The Fountain."
Again, he wouldn't have gotten The Fountain gig if not for Requiem.
"what would that be? He's been happily making modest-budgeted films throughout his entire career."
Wolverine 2? The hypothetical Robocop reboot? And no one happily makes modest-budgeted films if they send 'em in for awards.
"I don't know, ask the studios that decided to close down production on it."
My point is that they probably closed it down because they weren't "sure" of him enough to give him bigger work.
"as Aronofsky has been offered blockbuster films even BEFORE The Wrestler, let alone Black Swan. Do some f#cking research, you imbecile."
But not before Requiem.
"as Aronofsky's films have been adequate in terms of financial success throughout his career."
So far, only Pi has actually made money on his name alone. And that had more to do with its budget than whether his work had general box office appeal. It could've bombed, and still been a hit on video, considering how cheap it was shot.
"However, what I'm trying to figure out is, how would Aronofsky owe Kon when he fairly purchased the rights from a film to only use one scene from it?"
Because it wasn't just one scene? The bathtub segment is the one which gets the most mention, but the stripper scene also clearly borrowed from PB. But even if it was only just one pat, it still contributed to the final product. Same reason why writers hate getting dicked out of film credits.
"You're just a Kon fanboy that can't accept the fact that 1.) Aronofsky HAS credited Kon several times and 2.) that Aronofsky is under no obligation to continuously credit Kon."
If Lasseter can give Miyazaki credit beyond the call of duty, so can Aronofsky.
"a disappointment compared to what? It still had solid box office gain for its budget..."
It cost $35 million, and made less than half of that. How is that solid? And then you tack on P+A, and it's a flop.
"He's had all kinds of success, that he does NOT owe to Kon."
Perhaps, but the success he's getting now definitely goes to Kon.
"Because you're trying to proclaim that a film you've YET to see, "
Read the script, and am about to catch a free screening in a few weeks.
"All Aronosky said is that Perfect Blue was not the inspiration for Black Swan, which he's RIGHT about."
Yeah, he's so right about it that he's been citing influences other than Perfect Blue.
"He has every right to say that,"
Only legally speaking. Not on moral grounds, though.
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"why would he give condolences to a director he doesn't know on a personal level?"
Well, in Japan, it's traditional to get acquainted with artists when you're making deals with them. And Aronofsky did as such, so it's close enough. Anyway, the How To Train Your Dragon co-director most likely never knew Kon, either, and he still did an LAT piece praising the deceased director.
"with one being more marketable than the other..."
The Ring was more marketable in Japan than it was here-at least at the time. There's no guarantee that it would've caught on here as a remake, though, as a lot of Nakahata films and Asian remakes have in fact tanked and/or under-performed.
"Boomin' ratings on Cartoon Network, for a time in which that network was aimed at 13 year old boys, certainly showcases the glaring popularity of Perfect Blue."
It was popular enough to be spliced into a Madonna concert tour video, so...
"The fact that you think $100,000 in theatre revenue for Perfect Blue actually merits my previous sentiments, you imbecile."
For an R-rated animated thriller with little exposure, that's pretty good.
"and Aronofsky still made a fair and appropriate purchase."
Again, given what he will get out of it vs. Kon, how it is "fair"?
"Kon never came out and said he felt low-balled, EVER."
No, he just didn't seem to get along with Darren, if that blog entry is accurate.
"you're comparing actual humanic history to a purchase of a minor film (at least compared to the idiotic parrlels you're drawing) in a medium of entertainment. "
Appropriating pop culture at the expense of someone else's career *is* part of humanic history.
"Aronofsky still isn't the one at fault... the sellers are."
If they had known what he really intended by remaking it, I'm sure they would've asked for more money, and/or a screen credit.
"1.) Aronofsky had films planned before and after Requiem"
Having a film planned and being on the short-list for it are two different things.
"You're forgetting that outside of ONE scene, Requiem is Aronofsky's OWN work... that success is his."
Again, tell that to writers disputing their involvement on a film with the WGA.
"nice job of not mentioning the Batman: Year One concept, or how about his hat being thrown in the ring for Watchmen,"
Those were development hell projects which were not going to be greenlit any faster if he were attached to 'em, while Wolvie 2 is such a project.
"doesn't matter, the film still made respectable revenue considering it was from 1.) a first time director without a huge studio backing an 2.) a film made with an unorthodox approach and a fairly nonlinear narrative, which could alienate the general audience."
If you stick almost anything in theaters long enough, it'll recoup its cost and then some.
"what stripper scene are you referring to? There isn't a stripper scene, idiot."
NSFW. http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/21824870 Also, if you wanna be technical, SFW.
"remove one (or two scenes) from that film, which are minor in storytelling, and the film is still a critical success regardless."
It's more than just story, it's atmosphere.
"So, back to square one, where you're tying to make it sound like Aronofsky never gave credit to Kon... which he did,"
Well, I've taken into account his name-drop of Kon on the DVD. But he's been negligent lately, which is my problem.
"He owes Kon NOTHING, everything he took from Kon, he f#cking paid for fair and square, you need to get that through your head, you dimwit."
He paid for it fair and square about as well as Harvey.
"The Wrestler could have very well been made after PI, "
Yeah, because Rourke was a big name, and that Mick Foley movie proved that hard-R wrestling dramas are huge.
"The Wrestler is the film that actually catapulted Aronofsky into mainstream success..."
You think anyone would've seen The Wrestler if "the guy who directed Requiem and Fountain" wasn't involved?
"as cited by a couple of users on ONEManga, who actually saw the film at the Toronto Film Festival, and they certainly have far more credible knowledge in regards to anime than you ever will."
Well, we'll see in a couple weeks.
"you're the only moron on here who thinks Black Swan is some how tied into Perfect Blue, which is not the case at all."
Even though the protagonists in both films have similar names, stage mothers, and are ready to do anything to be successful?
"why would he credit other specific influences, yet shaft another, especially one he HAS credited in in the past?"
You tell me.
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"With that being said, the more I see out of Black Swan (including a recent music video), the more it does look like Princess Tutu."
Well, if you read the script, it's basically a rip-off of both, but then Swan's using the same ballet back-drop theme. Doesn't matter, though, 'cus Darren's still a hack.
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Yeah, it has to do with Rourke.
shareSo far, Swan's made $1 million [ http://www.indiewire.com/article/box_office_black_swan_soars_to_searchlight_record# ], but has $12 million to go. [At least if Box Office Mojo is accurate.] Not counting P+A. Anyone still think that the middle-man who sold the PB remake rights got a good deal for 60 grand?
shareBlack Swan has way more in common with the films of Cronenberg and Argento than it does with Kon. It's not like Kon was the first person to use the theme of duplicitous nature. Of course, just like Aronofsky states, Black Swan IS Swan Lake. I guess Aronofsky should start masturbating over the death of Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky now. For you to even make this argument without actually watching the film is ridiculous, of course it is to be expected. You are given the information you ask for (the commentary on Requiem,) and then insist that the person who provided this info regurgitate word for word for you, what are you, helpless? Also, Requiem was based on Last Exit to Brooklyn by Hubert Selby for *beep* You make laughable claims. "It was famous enough to be used in a Madonna concert." Are you serious? Wow. Well, can't argue with that. I'm sure everything she has ever used in some video projection was incredibly popular. Not a chance that she ever used the work from unknowns. Did Madonna pay Kon for the right to use the footage? Does she owe her career to him as well? You rag on Aronofsky for not winning every award for each and every film he ever made. How many Oscars did Kon win? None? Well, he must be a total hack then. You claim that Kon didn't receive a fair deal and that Perfect Blue was worth so much more than what he was paid. I guess that explains why all those anime distributors here in the U.S. all stopped manufacturing dvds. They got so rich they retired! Oh wait, no, that's not it. They stopped before they went *beep* bankrupt. He got a fair deal. If anybody screwed him, it was the Japanese. Anime directors and artists are horribly underpaid. Jesus, you make my head hurt. I feel for you Day In Day Out. You have way more patience than a normal person should be allowed to have by law. I loved Kon. I wrote a letter to his wife after his passing expressing my sadness and offering condolences. This argument, that onegilliamfan presents, isn't just entirely disrespectful to Aronofsky, it is also very disrespectful to Satoshi Kon. You are basically calling him an idiot that couldn't understand his own finances or how to market his own product to an interested party.
sharebrett: "For you to even make this argument without actually watching the film is ridiculous, of course it is to be expected."
I read the script and watched the movie now. And it still rips off PB. Swan Lake is only the back-drop. Disagree w/ http://www.badassdigest.com/2010/12/14/borders-line-is-black-swan-the-perfect-blue-remake-weve-been-waiting-for#disqus_thread about Swan being the better film, but she makes some good points about what Darren swiped.
"Did Madonna pay Kon for the right to use the footage? Does she owe her career to him as well?"
I dunno about the first question, but Madonna didn't get her first award prospect for that concert.
"How many Oscars did Kon win? None?"
He won international awards. The only reason he wasn't up for Oscars was the same reason Bashir was snubbed for Best Animated Film, which was because the Academy doesn't think an animated film not revolving talking animals is legitimate.
"Well, he must be a total hack then."
Well, he's been ripped off twice in the same year, so I doubt it.
"You claim that Kon didn't receive a fair deal and that Perfect Blue was worth so much more than what he was paid. I guess that explains why all those anime distributors here in the U.S. all stopped manufacturing dvds. They got so rich they retired! Oh wait, no, that's not it. They stopped before they went *beep* bankrupt. He got a fair deal. "
They still make DVDs, just not as many companies make 'em. And the reason certain shows are streamed is because they made a mistake last time in assuming anything with the word "anime" in it would sell. I'm not sure how that has anything to do with that deal, though. And Swan's close to making $20 million soon, while whoever got paid on PB only pocketed 60 grand. How is that "good" in any sense of the word? Hell, when that Mel Jesus movie made the money it did, the screenwriter got his share in a suit after being told it wasn't even gonna make money. So I think Kon's family or that middle-man should do the same.
"This argument, that onegilliamfan presents, isn't just entirely disrespectful to Aronofsky, it is also very disrespectful to Satoshi Kon."
Yeah, I'm the one who's disrespectful when I'm fighting for his recognition while everyone else is pretending that Darren and Nolan are "original".
"You are basically calling him an idiot that couldn't understand his own finances or how to market his own product to an interested party."
I did not say that. I suggested that either he or the middle-man was misled about how much it was worth for the remake rights, and that part of it came from his lower rank in the industry. If he were bigger in Japan, he'd have more of a say in how much he'd get out of it, like Toho probably did with The Ring, and Toei with Battle Royale.
Also, for a scene which was so "minor", why was it featured in the ad for the actual movie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgo3Hb5vWLE
At the very beginning he said he was not influenced by Perfect Blue with the bath tub scene. After serious outcries from Satoshi Kon's fans he could not hide it anymore and bought the rights for the movie. After he bought them he magically started to "admire" Satoshi Kon. I have zero respect for Aronofsky since this happened. All this was available on the internet, articles interviews etc, but they magically disappeared. I feel so outraged when I see everyone trying to defend Aronofsky and Nolan. Both lied about their influences until the last moment. Revolting.
All time favorites
http://www.imdb.com/list/uXvt09u3fO4/
We should give Darren the benefit of the doubt. He clearly loves PB, probably was affected by Kon's death, etc. I think Black Swan would make a perfect companion piece to Perfect Blue, so whenever someone asks me for recommendations of a movie "just like BS," I'm gonna refer them to PB. Thus, Kon gets more exposure and his audience grows.
Great Godzilla's gonads!
If he was affected by Kon's death, he's had all the time in the world to let people know.
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"he doesn't have to, you f#cking nimrod."
Considering he could get his first Oscar because of it, I disagree.
"For one, Aronofsky isn't the type of guy who likes to sit in the limelight,"
And yet he's taking credit for Kon's film.
"let alone sulk in it."
So, Kon's a guy Darren flew to Japan to meet in person, and yet Darren is not impacted whatsoever by Kon's death? If he's not, then we know what kind of guy Darren really was underneath the snake oil.
"Two, no one has ever raised the question about the influence Kon has had on him."
Actually, they did a few months ago. And he went into denial mode. Hence the title of this thread.
"Three, I finished watching Black Swan recently, and as another user pointed out, this film is way more closer to something like Polanski's early work than it is anything that Kon has made."
You still stand by that opinion, even though Darren himself admits that they're alike?
"Black Swan stands on its own merits."
If it could stand on its own merits, then people wouldn't be comparing it to PB.
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"disagree all you want, you're still wrong."
How am I wrong? If he gets his Oscar, he won't be able to avoid the reality that Kon had some part in it.
"so wait... one second he's not crediting Kon, but now you're saying he his... what the f#ck are you talking about?"
Let's just say that if I was being metaphoric, Kon's the white swan, and Darren's the black swan.
"Aronofsky made a fair purchase and nothing more..."
How is making $50 million off a concept he only paid 60 grand for fair?
"hell, if he wanted to, he could make Perfect Blue a live action film without dedicating it to Kon."
Well, that's what he just did.
"he didn't go into denial mode."
What part of "No, Perfect Blue did not inspire Swan" isn't denial?
"In fact, he cited a film in which it drew more similiar parrallels with, which he is absolutely spot on about."
He cited a ballet performance. And it's only aesthetically similar, but plot-wise is a different movie. For example, there's no stage mother in Swan Lake.
"As I mentioned previously, there's more in common with Polanski's early work, or the aforementioned Swan Lake ballet piece..."
So Polanski made a movie where a person meets their double on a subway, too?
"just above you say he went into denial mode, but yet, now you're saying that he said the two films are alike?"
He tried to have it both ways. Deny any due homage to PB and/or Kon, while deflecting any argument made that he couldn't have seen PB, since he'd rightfully be called on it, given his history.
"PERSON (not people) are the only ones comparing it to Perfect Blue, you being that only person."
Actually, I'm not the only one. I can give you a whole list of reviewers and bloggers, in fact, but I'll start with http://www.badassdigest.com/2010/12/14/borders-line-is-black-swan-the-perfect-blue-remake-weve-been-waiting-for#disqus_thread .
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I'm not some passionate fan of either directors but I deeply respect the works of Kon (R.I.P). Having watched Perfect Blue fairly recently and read about this debate on whether to call the Black Swan a movie of inspiration or downright rip-off, I'd say it's more of the former. Inspiration, some inter-textual reference (as often seen and valued positively in literature), homage, tribute-- whichever one likes to call it. Personally, I go for inspiration and inter-textual reference.
I don't expect Aronofsky, or any director or author for that matter, to openly address those exact moments or instances of inspiration they've found in a prior work- the finished product does that on its own for careful audience to see. Nevertheless, Aronofsky did mention Kon's name a number of times (with respect to the Black Swan and Requiem for a Dream) and purchased the rights of Perfect Blue in a legal deal of consensual kind-- as opposed to blatantly copying another work without acknowledging the ownership behind its artistic production. And rather than the theme or the character psychology of the two films, it's the psychotic scene of numerous pictures with moving lips and some musical elements I've found to be common to both films. Yes, it's obvious Aronofsky loved those when watching Perfect Blue.
In the end I see Black Swan having a creative merit of its own, regardless of those similarities and differences it has to Tchaikovsky's ballet, Dostoevsky's novella (The Double) or Kon's animated film.
tnesla: Actually, he's *never* mentioned Kon in regards to Swan-hence the thread. He did name-drop Kurosawa recently, though, so at least he's finally getting the right country.
"and purchased the rights of Perfect Blue in a legal deal of consensual kind-- as opposed to blatantly copying another work without acknowledging the ownership behind its artistic production."
Well, again, we don't know if it *was* consensual, because we don't even know if Kon had any part in that deal. And just because it's legal doesn't mean he's not still ripping off PB. Otherwise, he'd give credit where it was due. But, if you wanna go that way, you did hear about his alleged next project, right? Total rip-off of Tetsuo.
onegilliamfan: Aronofsky doesn't cite Perfect Blue among the inspiring references of his Black Swan but he does accept there are certain similarities between these two works.* His may not be a satisfying explanation for everyone, but at least he doesn't seem to shy away from recognizing what many viewers notice. Yours to decide if he's open and sincere about it or dishonest and disrespectful to Kon's memory & art.
I'm going to disagree with you on your questioning of the agreement between Aronofsky and Kon over the rights of Perfect Blue. Well, not because I claim to know exactly what happened during the sale/purchase process of course, but because a legally-binding deal is considered to be fair and legitimate unless there is substantial evidence to nullify, in this particular case, the consensual nature of the agreement. At this point, I'm assuming Aronofsky bought the rights directly from Kon and that Kon wasn't pacified by the production company/studio during the process. Consider this as my categorical take on the legality of the matters, not some attempt to defend Aronofsky. He's not a director I particularly care for.
Since you seem to be much more familiar with Japanese films than I am, I wonder what you think about Aronofsky's the Fountain, if you've seen it.
I'm not some solid fan of anime with many viewings under her belt, but some of the narrative motifs and visual aspects of Aronofsky's the Fountain seemed very Evangelion-'inspired' to me. Would you agree or not? Perhaps other Japanese works you can point to as well?
*the reference you've given in your original post, http://filmadelphia.org/blog/?p=793
Well, of *course* he's not gonna pretend he's never heard of PB. I mean, he went to Japan to get the remake rights, and Kon blogged about it, FFS. If he wanted to dispel that story, he should've done it ten years ago. Now, he's stuck with it.
"Well, not because I claim to know exactly what happened during the sale/purchase process of course, but because a legally-binding deal is considered to be fair and legitimate unless there is substantial evidence to nullify, in this particular case, the consensual nature of the agreement."
As I alluded to a while back, one of the Passion writers sued Mel and won because Mel mislead him on how much the actual film was worth. Now, if this precedent could be applied here-and who's to say it couldn't, considering how much Swan is making, versus how much Kon, or his middle-man, made-then there might be a case. I wish I could say I knew the details, but I'd find it shocking if FOX didn't at least do a legal background check on Darren over that contract, considering it won its own suit against WB two years before over similar errors in judgment. 'Cus, if they got it wrong, then whomever produced the live-action remake of PB in Japan might have their own case against FOX, since they might've had the exclusive rights to that property in Japan-at least. But then this is all speculation. All I do know is that they were unusually more proactive on Paprika in getting the remake rights to it, most likely in an attempt to cover their asses with Inception. So I'm surprised that, given that Darren knew Kon, at least in person, and given all the prior info on Requiem, that FOX had just ok'ed the project without at least verifying the details. Either way, IANAL, and so I can't judge the actual merits of these circumstances.
"At this point, I'm assuming Aronofsky bought the rights directly from Kon and that Kon wasn't pacified by the production company/studio during the process. "
I might believe that, except that the way that blog was written, it sounded like he only informed Kon *after* he bought the rights. As for Kon's own influence, well, let's be honest here. He was an up-and-comer who was only *starting* to get recognition internationally through PB. So he definitely would not have the clout to agree to the terms of the deal in the way he'd prefer. Especially if the production really was troubled from the get-go, and it was not going to make a lot of money, anyway.
As for The Fountain, I haven't seen it, but its premise reminds me of Osamu's Tezuka's Phoenix. Though I'd imagine Eva more likely inspired Pi. ^_-
Thanks for the Osamu Tezuka note. I'm not at all well-informed in media of manga/anime except for serendipitous encounters with a few really awesome works, so references to such prominent figures come handy.
I understand what you mean with the example of Passion of the Christ. I guess we have to wait to see if a similar objection gets to be made about the financial success of Black Swan and the modest price Aronofsky had paid for the copyright purchase of Perfect Blue. That would be the only solid reason for me to accept there's something problematic about Black Swan since, like I wrote before, I personally find the similarities to be tolerable and far less significant than the differences between these two works.
Hopefully, all these debates over the originality of Black Swan and Inception will intrigue people to check out Kon and help Kon's works meet a wider audience.
Also, when he paid for the remake rights, did he pay for the entire thing, or just the scenes he ended up using in Requiem?
shareHe bought all of the rights, however I seriously doubt that Satoshi Kon saw that money. The creatives who work in anime are not treated well, and lord knows Satoshi Kon was not a wealthy man when he died. It is more than likely that the rights to the film belonged to Madhouse and they would have sold it on and who knows if they would have split any with him, or indeed the writer of the original novel which it is loosely based on.
Day in Day Out you keep accusing onegilliamfan of being a Kon fanboy but I could easily say the same with regards to how you are defending Aronofsky. I do not think anyone is being 'ripped off' here- they are two different films despite their similarities, and and anyway Perfect Blue was based on a novel, but it rubs me the wrong way that Aronofsky is now saying that Perfect Blue did not influence Black Swan when it so clearly did. I would write it off as a coincidence if it wasn't for the fact that he has actually cited him as an inspiration before and bought the film rights. No one is expecting him to dedicate the film to Satoshi Kon but it really saddens me that when he died two of the biggest directors in Hollywood who were both clearly inspired by his work did not feel any kind of need to bring it up. I'm sure there are fans of Black Swan who would LOVE Perfect Blue if they heard about it, why couldn't both Aronofsky and Nolan at least mention to their fans that this great, inspirational director died tragically young and they should check out his films. Before you say it, of course it isn't their job to publicise other talent in the industry but it would have been in very good form and a way of them paying their respects to a great man. It seems to me that when he died Hollywood just didn't give a crap, even though Black Swan and Inception were probably the most talked about films of 2010 and both owe a thanks to him.
Lovers in League Against Satan
If you're familiar with the Swan Lake ballet, and have actually seen Black Swan, you would know that the latter is basically a retelling of the former. Where are all the complaints that Aronofsky "ripped off" Tchaikovsky? Geeze.
Perfect Blue is an awesome movie, and unique in its own right, and I truly think it's giving it a huge disservice to act like there is anything else out there just like it. Especially when the movie you're accusing of ripping off from it was greatly INSPIRED by Swan Lake - anyone with any kind of comprehension whatsoever can clearly see this. Accusing Darren of lying about this when the proof is right there in front of you is extremely strange.
Black Swan has some similarities to PB, but that hardly makes it like it or a "rip-off". I really don't see where all the people are coming from when they go on and on about this. Unless by "rip-off" you mean "slightly similar in the same way that every movie ever in existence is slightly similar to something else."
They really AREN'T that close in story to comment much about, nevertheless to go on some diatribe about how it's ripping it off.
The virgin versus the harlot is a story as old as humanity. This theme influenced both the story of Swan Lake and Perfect Blue, and each of these influenced Aronofsky in Black Swan.
I wouldn't call it ripping off either, but the psychological aspects of each film are very similar: the protagonist being pressured to use her sexuality, resulting in her downward spiral; two sides of a character, one light and one dark, fighting for dominance; violent acts shown that may or may not be real; the room as prison. Of course, Mima was alone in Tokyo while in Black Swan Nina (wow, even the names are similar!) lives with an oppressive mother. But then again, there are parallels between Nina's mother and Rumi, who is an oppressive mother-figure in her own right. Each film is different in style and theme; Perfect Blue is more about a young girl struggling to maintain her identity against the forces of others who wish to define her, while Black Swan is about a dancer who sacrifices her sanity and herself for her art. There is also the additional cultural framework of Japanese pop idols-turned-actresses versus the world of New York City ballet.
pupnik: Update on the Nolan thing. I asked him about Paprika @ the Memento Q&A, he said he heard of it, but hadn't seen it, but seemed more interested when I brought up that Kon name-dropped TDK before he died. Judging by how the Nolan Bros. divide the writing process, it's now my belief that his brother is the one who saw Paprika, since he seems to be more into the fantasy/sci-fi stuff. I did get Guillermo Del Toro to say that Kon was a "great" director, so I went home happy. However, Darren's still an a-hole, unless he and/or Natalie mentions Kon in their acceptance speech.
geoweo: He mentioned Swan Lake, hence he didn't rip it off. You could argue that he cribbed from Princess Tutu, though.
Nope. Natalie couldn't mention Kon nor could the Academy in their In Memoriam segment. Now I'm really PO'ed.
sharejeez wtf is with this thread? why all the posts has been deleted except onegilliamfan's?
shareonegilliamfan should change his name to onedelusionalfan
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A picture with a smile - and perhaps, a tear.
Fwiw, I'm completely with onegilliam fan on this.
I've seen Black Swan and Perfect Blue (many years previous) and the influence of Kon's film is stamped all over it.
It's no big deal if he did use it as a heavy influence. I'm a fan of both.
I feel the ire on gilliamfan's part is that Satoshi Kon died young with many years of greatness ahead of him, creating a raw feeling of acute loss which may explain his anger. I can understand it. Unfairly Kon never stepped out of the much-lauded shadow of Miyazaki in the eyes of critics, or even aficionados.
It's a damn shame. He was a fine talent and I'm sure, would have been one of anime's legends.