Gandalf tells Pippin in ROTK:
"Lord Denethor is Boromir's father. To give him news of his beloved son's death would be most unwise."
An oblivious Denethor would have surely asked Gandalf of news about Boromir. Was Gandalf planning on lying to him?
We will never know, though it is worth noting that Lord Denethor would have had no normal means of knowing that his son had been a member of the Fellowship if he had not received a sign of Boromir's death. Gandalf probably would have attempted to talk around the subject.
"Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved." - T. Isabella
Gandalf would have been very unwise to try and cover up news of Boromir's death. Denethor loathed him as it was, good thing he didn't try to put one over on a man with a working palantir!
“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!
I think this is an instance when Tolkien's original words work better than the screenwriters. And I think, perhaps, book-readers know Tolkien's version and superimpose it over the movie dialog such that movie-Gandalf's advice doesn't pop out (as quickly) as puzzling.
Here's that part from the book.
They walked down a paved passage, long and empty, and as they went Gandalf spoke softly to Pippin. 'Be careful of your words, Master Peregrin! This is no time for hobbit pertness. Théoden is a kindly old man. Denethor is of another sort, proud and subtle, a man of far greater lineage and power, though he is not called a king. But he will speak most to you, and question you much, since you can tell him of his son Boromir. He loved him greatly: too much perhaps; and the more so because they were unlike. But under cover of this love he will think it easier to learn what he witches from you rather than from me. Do not tell him more than you need, and leave quiet the matter of Frodo's errand. I will deal with that in due time. And say nothing about Aragorn either, unless you must.'For sure, book-Gandalf's advice wasn't to avoid telling Denethor of Boromir's death. And I guess, thinking about it, I agree that it doesn't make much sense for movie-Gandalf to say what he does. I think the larger context of the advice book-Gandalf was giving does help flesh out the situation a little.
'Why not? What is wrong with Strider?' Pippin whispered. 'He meant to come here, didn't he? And he'll be arriving soon himself anyway.'
'Maybe, maybe,' said Gandalf. 'Though if he comes, it is likely to be in some way that no one expects, not even Denethor. It will be better so. At least he should come unheralded by us.'
Gandalf halted before a tall door of polished metal. 'See, Master Pippin, there is no time to instruct you now in the history of Gondor; though it might have been better, if you had learned something of it, when you were still birds-nesting and playing truant in the woods of the Shire. Do as I bid! It is scarcely wise when bringing the news of the death of his heir to a mighty lord to speak over much of the coming of one who will, if he comes, claim the kingship. Is that enough?'
'Kingship?' said Pippin amazed.
'Yes,' said Gandalf. 'If you have walked all these days with closed ears and mind asleep, wake up now!' He knocked on the door.
Then he wouldn't be the bitter, weakened and disilusional man he is in LOTR. But please let me elaborate:
Denethor has access to a palantir (seeing stone). Sauron also has a palantir as is well known. The moment Denethor used that palantir (for good reasons ofc), he became fully exposed to the decieving powers of Sauron. And Sauron used this to his advantedge. A palantir cannot lie, it always shows the truth. But by showing only bits and pieces the reciever can misinterpretate it. So Sauron uses this to show him the utter despair of the world of men and the enormous, seemingly undistructable power of Sauron to decieve the mind of Denethor. This is also the way he learned about Boromir's death. That splitted horn he is holding is just a dramatic effect, even if he didn't had that horn (which he doesn't in the books), he still would have known about the dead of his most beloved son.
So, him not knowing anbout Boromir's dead wouldn't make sense. There is no way Sauron wouldn't use this in his advantedge. If he didn't know it, it would mean he didn't use the palantir (there is no way he could use the palantir and not be seduced by Sauron, that goes completely against his character.) and he wouldn't know any other information gained by the palantir.
That splitted horn he is holding is just a dramatic effect, even if he didn't had that horn (which he doesn't in the books), he still would have known about the dead of his most beloved son.
'But you speak of his death. You have had news of that ere we came?'share
'I have received this,' said Denethor, and laying down his rod he lifted from his lap the thing that he had been gazing at. In each hand he held up one half of a great horn cloven through the middle: a wild-ox horn bound with silver.
'That is the horn that Boromir always wore!' cried Pippin.
Thanks for the correction. It has been a while since I read the books. And apparently I need to read it again, because important details are slipping away.
But I still think he would have known about Boromir if he didn't find that horn.
Please tell me, what is your opinion on this?
There is not a huge amount of specific detail about the capabilities of the Palantiri, but I don't see any evidence that Sauron knows anything about Boromir's death, so I don't think Sauron uses that fact to torment Denethor. I also don't see any evidence that Denethor's Palantir viewing has given him any other specific details about the Fellowship's journey (note that he is asking for details about how and why Boromir died), so I tend to doubt that he divined the information on his own that way.
I think the recovery of the two halves of the horn from the river convinces Denethor that Boromir is dead; he believes his son could be never be parted from it any other way.
The way that Sauron uses the Palantiri to undercut Denethor's mind is to show him glimpses of military forces closing in on him, and later on the same tokens of Frodo's capture that the Mouth of Sauron shows to Gandalf and Co. Plus, there are some strong indications that mind-to-mind contact with Sauron in the Palantir depletes a person psychologically and physically.
That's a very good explanation. I now understand why I was wrong. Thank you for the replies!
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