the killer's mother cannot have been the first victim, right?

[deleted]

No, he was interviewing just the father, saw a picture of the mother and, I think, she was wearing a nurse's hat in the pic.

I think you may be mixing up the scene with killer's father and a scene where Frank talks to the mother of one of the Nightingale's victims.

He interviewed the killer's parents -before- the timeline was changed.

The sequence of events is this:

-Gordo and his son get out the HAM radio. Later father and son have a talk in which John 'predicts' the outcome of the game next day.


-Next day, Frank watches the game with friends and family in his backyard.

-Meanwhile, John in the future investigates the find of a 30 year old skeleton at a construction site. In the progress, he interviews the Killer's parents.

-In the evening, Frank calls "unidentified station Queens" and asks him how he knew the outcome. During the exchange, Future John overhears Frank talking with Past John and at first thinks someone is playing a joke on him.
Then Frank accidentally burns the desk, Future John realizes he's actually talking with his father in the past and tells him about the fire.


-Frank survives the fire, while in the future, John, Gordo and Satch have a drink on him.
Frank carves into his desk, and they have a long talk.
Eventually, John says he needs sleep and Frank goes and visits his wife at the hospital. While they talk, she sees a doctor about to make a fatal mistake and intervenes.

*** That is the turning point: she safes the killer's life ***

-John has a bad dream, then tries to call his mother and only gets a 'wrong number'.
-Next day on the job, Satch tells him about the skeleton being one of the Nightingale Murders. During the talk about it, it comes out that John's mother is also one of the victims.

-Over the next days, John tells Frank where to look after the victims. Jacks spots him and tries to pin the next murder on him, but in the progress leaves his fingerprints on Franks wallet.

-John runs the prints in the future and finds out the killer is a cop. He goes back to interview the parents and that's when he learns the killer's mother was murdered, but it wasn't linked to the Nightingale Murders.



So Jack must have killed his mother some time -after- the events of the film. Though of course, because of further changes, at the end of the film she is alive.

Jack's mother was killed after the initial 3 murders. She was there in first 1999 timeline when John interviewed the neighbours (Jack Shephard's mother and father) when they found the skeleton. I would assume that since Jack didn't die at the hospital he got the chance to off his mother (might have been planned all the time since he targeted nurses).

I never apologize, Lisa. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am. Homer Simpson

You know, I have seen this movie about a dozen times...


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Today I realized while watching it--I have never seen the first fifteen minutes, so I completely missed your point!
At the start of the movie, when the body is found, he visits the house of the killer's parents:
Son had died back in '69 in this version of John's present. I cannot remember if the dad said said how he died, but the mom was alive.

Frank had died in the '69 fire. When that happened, Julia got called away from work during her shift. She was not there to keep the young resident from giving the killer (the patient in the hospital bed) the wrong medication and the Nightingale murderer dies.

John tell's 1969 Frank how to get out of building in the fire the next day. When Frank does not die in the fire, Julia works her whole shift and keeps the resident from killing the patient Nightingale murderer. Now he is alive to commit more murders.


There is still some inconsistency, though, because I think John mentions that the Nightingale's mother was his first victim, but he had already committed three murders at the point he is in the hospital bed for Julia to save.*********Edited: watching the movie now and the way it was actually said by John was that Mary Finelli, the one found in present day, was the Nightingale's first victim and that she knew her killer (I don't think it was explained how she knew her killer). A moment later, John says that if the cops in '69 had connected the killer's mother's death with the Nightingale murders, that they would have investigated Jack Shepard in 1969.**********

All in all, I really love this movie--I think partially because the first time I saw it was 2003 and after September 11th, the fire fighter being saved really was very sweet 🌸 and hopeful.

Of course his mother was not the first victim in any timeline. Serial killers cease to operate for one of 3 reasons: they die for some reason, they achieve what they wish and get caught, or they never get caught.

However, what we know for certain about serial killers is that they kill people who resemble the person they wish to kill, but can't. If they never get caught, their last victim is the one everyone else resembles. So in those timelines Shepherd stopped after killing the one he wanted.

He felt abandoned by his mother, but he also deeply loved her (in his crazed way) which is why she was buried differently, than anybody else.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

The OP is right.

In the original timeline, he has already killed 3 times AND his mother is still alive.

How can his mother subsequently become his first victim?