MovieChat Forums > The West Wing (1999) Discussion > Just a little pet peeve . . .

Just a little pet peeve . . .

posted 9 years ago by goleary-78836
26 replies | jump to latest

I'm having a great time binge-watching. Just starting Season 3, and loving every second. I'm a huge Aaron Sorkin fan, and I think he's a brilliant writer, except he has Toby making the same grammatical error over and over, and it's sort of driving me crazy!! I know it's silly, and I admit that I'm hyper aware of these kinds of things, but it is grammatically incorrect to say "I could care less." Like I said, I'm just beginning Season 3, and he's done it probably half a dozen times. I find it ironic that in the Office of the White House Communications Director, the Director himself would get this one little thing wrong so many times. Thanks for letting me vent. That is all.

[–] minicii 9 years ago

It's not grammatically incorrect; it just doesn't achieve what he's aiming for.

[–] goleary-78836 9 years ago

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I suspect he's trying to convey that Toby's level of caring is as low as it could possibly be, in which case, the correct expression is, "I couldn't care less."

[–] minicii 9 years ago

No, actually I'm right. There's no grammatical error in "I could care less." It's a perfectly grammatical sentence. It just doesn't mean what Toby is trying to convey, which is that he could not possibly care less than he already does. So he's wrong, which I understood the first time, but in usage not grammar.

[–] goleary-78836 9 years ago

Ok. So I misspoke. While there is no grammatical error in the statement "I could care less," I find it ironic that Aaron Sorkin would allow such a misstatement coming from the Director of White House Communications.

There is the possibility, however, that in using such a phrase, Mr. Sorkin was trying to convey that Toby cares much more than Toby lets on. A Freudian slip, if you will.

[–] tenement-funster 9 years ago

"I could care less" is common American English now. It has been for some years. Yes, if you analyse it, it's grammatically inaccurate, but that doesn't stop it from being in common usage! Language changes, and that's just the way it is. I disagree that Aaron Sorkin should have avoided it. As a writer, it's his job to write realistic dialogue, which means having characters speak the way that real people do. And that means using phrases like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I find concussion quite invigorating.

[–] MikeO_64 8 years ago

Yes. A lot of fat, lazy Americans that were pushed through high school (and college) misspeak all the time. I bet their teachers wonder why they wasted their time even bothering.

[–] SaliceMcD 8 years ago

I couldn't agree more, MikeO_64. I once spent ten minutes - during which time I flapped my arms like a bird - attempting to explain to a class of college freshmen why "The time literally flew by" is an incorrect statement. ("Literally" is a word enjoying great popularity these days, whether used correctly or - most often - not.)

And just FYI, the new pronunciation of "supposedly" is "suppozubly." Yet I soldier on.

[–] darryl-tahirali 8 years ago

There's no grammatical error in "I could care less." It's a perfectly grammatical sentence.

Noam Chomsky's famous sentence in linguistics: "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously." Grammatically correct, but nonsensical.

Yeah, yeah--you couldn't care less. Or maybe could . . .

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"The past is never dead. It isn't even past." -- William Faulkner

[–] SaliceMcD 9 years ago

I believe it *is* grammatically incorrect - in its context.

[–] ArtofAlmost11 8 years ago

Actually, in its context it is absolutely fine. Because EVERYONE knows what he means. The problem is that the people complaining are ignoring the context.

[–] smoko 9 years ago

@goleary-78836 It looks like it might be an American thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to hold down the fort.

[–] goleary-78836 9 years ago

That's hilarious!! Thank you so much for sharing.

[–] Tazwoman 9 years ago

I agree with the OP, "couldn't care less" is correct, however Toby had his own way of speaking, Sorkin gave all the WW characters particular little habits, such as Josh's "you know" and so this was just Toby's way of saying he could give a damn.

Favorite show.

[–] captainwebelozappbrannigan 8 years ago

Haha, this is great. Thanks for sharing.

[–] ArtofAlmost11 9 years ago

I think it's more a case of the way language evolves. Everyone knows 'I could care less' doesn't imply that you don't care but it's just became the phrase that is used when someone does in fact not care.

Is it incorrect usage? Yes, but does everyone do it from time to time? Almost definitely.

[–] information_police 9 years ago

It is a common colloquialism in NYC, where Toby is from, to say "I could care less", as a matter of sarcasm.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules. "
-Walter Sobchak

[–] Xyzzwhy 9 years ago

Actually, I have a solution for you, directly from the show: at the beginning of In Excelsis Deo (S1E10), Mandy and C.J. enter the lobby talking about some event later and how some carolers will be dressed. They encounter Toby standing in front of a Christmas tree looking at a newspaper:

Toby: Someone tell me why I'm standing here.

C.J.: So you can weigh in on this.

Toby: I could care less.

Mandy [chiding]: Toby...

Toby: More?

Thus, he knows it's incorrect and just doesn't care.

[–] jamiekincaid 9 years ago

Wow! Great catch! This always bothered me a bit too. Not so much when the average Joe says it but we're talking about Toby here. One of the greatest writers in the nation. He talks about trochaic tetrameter like it's something anyone could pick up on but he regularly says "I could care less". Thank you for pointing this little bit of dialogue out.

Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

[–] amazingann 8 years ago

I came up with the same explanation, coming from the script. That the line is a setup to him saying "More?"

[–] jacka-katherine 8 years ago

Are you from the US? I am Australian and have noticed that Americans always say it that way. It's completely contradictory but it's how it's used.

[–] cherylelliotcrna 8 years ago

My best friend is from Adelaide, jacka-katherine!

They amusingly addressed this whole "could/couldn't care less" contretemps four years ago on Modern Family:

Cameron : "Okay, fine, I could care less."

Mitchell : "I think you mean you couldn't care less, because if you could care less, that means that you care a little bit."

Cameron : "I'm going to the hot tub now, because if I stay in here one more minute, my head is literally gonna explode."

Mitchell : "Well, I hope not, because if you mean "literally"..."

Cameron : "I don't feel safe in my own home!!!"



[–] mikemcaree 8 years ago

There is nothing wrong with "I could care less."

Logically to achieve what you are asking from the expression, "I could not care less" means "yeah this is as little as I could care."

"I could care less," when used to convey the same message, is a trail-off idiom, meaning "yeah I could care less, but not much." The "but not much" is implied. This is an idiom in common usage.

Hope that helps. Or you could read this:

https://xkcd.com/1576/

[–] blueghostcashmere 8 years ago

This used to be a pet peeve of mine. So much so that during the original airing of the show I actually wrote in to complain about their use of "I could care less." I received no response. But if I remember correctly they do use the term "I couldn't care less" at least a couple of times in later seasons.

Although I'd never use the phrase myself, I've come to accept "I could care less." as a colloquialism. I've let it go. I have to admit that these days I'm much more bothered by "besides the point."