MovieChat Forums > Kôkaku kidôtai: Stand Alone Complex (2004) Discussion > 2nd Gig, Episode 26 Question *spoilers*

2nd Gig, Episode 26 Question spoilers

posted 14 years ago by dragon_dance
5 replies | jump to latest

What was the whole point of the apples in the last episode? I've always tried figuring out what the apples represent. We see them on the ground with Kuze and the Major under the rubble, before Batou comes to rescue them. Motoko nearly takes a bite out of an apple, only to stop before she hears the singing of the tachikomas. Then Kuze had an apple on the helicopter I think that had a bite taken out of it.

I always thought about the symbolism of the apples representing the "forbidden" fruit in the Garden of Eden, or that the apples represented their humanity.

Margeary is dreaming of horses.

Rise and rise again-until lambs become lions.

[–] danimal50 14 years ago

I think that you hit the nail on the head with the "forbidden fruit" reference.

Remember what Motoko and Kuze were doing in that scene? They were preparing to leave their physical bodies behind and transfer their ghosts into the Net. I think that the journey into a new form of consciousness is meant to parallel the journey from the Garden of Eden into the physical world that Adam and Eve experience in The Bible. Remember, the apple was the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and once you take a bite you can never go back.

Notice how Motoko picks up an apple and hands one to Kuze. She almost takes a bite, but stops when she realizes that the Tachikomas have saved them all. Kuze, on the other hand, continues to stare longingly at the apple in his hand. He can't move his mouth so he can't physically take a bite, but it is clear that mentally he has done so. Just before he is killed, he says "I'll go on ahead," and he releases his consciousness into the Net. He has left the garden.

It's a great scene, and it is a perfect example of the dense philosophical undertones of the series.

[–] dragon_dance 14 years ago

I know before I ever attempted to write on these forums (or view philosophical opinions of people on other forums), I had no idea what the apples were there for. Later I found people describing the apples as a "forbidden fruit" reference. Is this actually just a standard opinion of the online community or is there actually a statement by the director/producers about scenes such as the ones with the apples?

I always thought it represented their humanity, even if it has nothing to do with the scene. Cyborgs don't eat "regular" food I don't think; their food has micro-machines in it doesn't it? We never see Motoko eating "regular" food, I don't think (other than the "special" food for cyborgs, and perhaps coffee, alcohol, etc). The same could be said of Kuze, but we really never do see the cyborg characters eating overall.

Motoko is ready to take the bite out of the apple, but never does. She never tastes that humanity, while Kuze does.

Not sure if that makes sense, but I like discussing the GITS philosophy.

Margeary is dreaming of horses.

Rise and rise again-until lambs become lions.

[–] ludovico_88 14 years ago

I chose the religion-based angle in wich they chew the forbiden fruit and get saved by a cross bearing man. Heavy and sketchy simbolism in both views though... (mine and yours)

[–] danimal50 14 years ago

@dragon dance:
I have no idea if any of the creators have discussed the religious symbolism in the show, so I can't comment on that, but IMO the symbolism is laid on pretty thick, especially in this scene. We have apples, discussions about saving the souls of living beings, and Batou standing over the Major and Kuze with a cross-shaped beam. It seems that the creators laid the symbolsim on far too thick to be a coincidence. Heck, even the English title of the show, "Ghost in the Shell," implies a deep philosophical comment on the existence of a human soul and its trancendence from the body. Which by the way is also a major component of religious thought in most parts of the world, including Christianity and Japanese Shintoism.

That being said, it is always difficult to discuss the deeper meanings of any type of art. Since we are not the artists, and we do not know what the artists were thinking when they created the show, we can never be sure what they intended these things to mean. So I think that your point about the apples, and real food in general, representing the humanity of the characters is equally valid. To take it a step further we can say that Motoko's reluctance to take a bite of the apple represents her inner conflict about her own humanity. She is obviously a very conflicted character. We are given glimpses of her past throughout the show. She has had her past taken from her, she has lost her body, and she has sold her soul to the government for the shiny new body that they gave her. In fact, she isn't even sure if she has any human parts left. Her brain is probably still made of meat, but she has never seen her own brain. She has only the word of others as proof that it is a real brain. And we see from the Tachikomas that fully artificial AIs can develop ghosts.

Discussions like these are why I really love this show. The philosophy that it explores is very deep, and we as viewers can come up with endless interpretations about its meaning. That is a vital component of GOOD art in my opinion. After all, nobody has ever accused Two And A Half Men as having any kind of deeper meaning. That type of show is just mindless drivel. But GITS is clearly different. It makes you think, and that is a good thing. It is really special to see this in a television show as it is so rare nowadays.

Cheers

[–] Liquidize105 14 years ago

I think your explanation is on point.

Something to think about is the contrast of this scene with the original GITS's scene of crossing over, which is depicted as bright light with a slight breeze, then falling feathers and finally a descending figure like an angel (The Puppetmaster). This process can be explained as the process of merger since the Puppetmaster states that his ability to access a vast ocean of information appears only as light to humans, whose own access is but a single drop in comparison.

OH THE HUGE MANATEE!!!