Abortion is absolutely evil
We are not civilized if we allow the killings of innocent human life.
shareHoney, I think you missed the point of the film !
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MovieChat Forums > Vera Drake (2005) Discussion > Abortion is absolutely evil
OVERPOPULATION IS ABSOLUTELY EVIL
What do you think is the reason for the Mexican invasion of this country?
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Hmm.... I really don't know my stance on abortion, I really don't. I personally don't think I would ever get one, but my mother has and so did my friend. I think abortion is okay when you have a good reason, in which both cases did.
My mom and my sister and step brothers and I were abused by our dad for many years. Eventually we left him, but soon after she found out she was pregnant. I don't blame her for aborting it- after we left we had no money and hardly a home, there were four of us kids and all of us- especially my mom- were trying to deal with emotional problems from my dads abuse. The child would have grown up neglected and with distant parenting- not intentionally of course. My mom is a great mom, but after being abused for so many years it would have been very hard for her to raise a child alone from the man that abused her, especially when she already had four kids.
My friend was in 9th grade when she was pregnant, she got raped at a party and became pregnant from it. She aborted it because she was young and emotionally and financially unstable.
I think reasons like that are okay, or if the abortion is done early on, before the baby is fully developed. I hate that babies are allowed to be aborted up until the day before the due date.
"Given the tens of thousands of innocent human lives that have been lost in Iraq and Afghanistan courtesy of Shock and Awe and Hearts and Minds I reckon the USA and Britain must be amongst the most evil nations on earth! How do evangelical Christians feel about that particular "evil"? Or is that merely dismissed as a "necessary" evil?"
Whoa! The OP Jamaal has no time to bother with any answers to that. Under his dozens of user ID's here his personal axis of evil in the world consists of abortion-porn-masturbation-anal sex-oral sex-premarital sex-female nudity in any movie-homosexuality-strip clubs, and last but possibly not least--swearing. This beacon of truth has made extensive posts on each of these national priorities. Obviously he is somebody to take very seriously.
Boogie, the fundy right want us wimmins to have lots and lots of babies. Aborting a baby would mean one less potential soldier to go off to another country and fight for Jesus!
Pro-life would mean believing in anti-war. That's just a theory that cooks a Christian's noodle and sends them running to their bible for more quotes...
There is no such thing as a full term abortion! Stop believing prolife propaganda, and instead read a medical textbook or better still, ask a gyno!
shareHow familiar are you with the history of that region ? Do you know anything about the 1st Gulf War ... how it ended ?
Do you believe 'force' is never to be used ? If so, what do you see as the alternative(s) ?
In your own town, on your own block, would you expect the authorities to allow a convicted criminal who is: 1. Out on parole for breaking into neighbors home, raping, robbing and murdering its occupants 2. Holed up with his gang in his house and continuing to run a criminal enterprise 3. Selling contraband ' out the back door 4. Who is ordering his gang to take 'pot shots' at the police while they're out on patrol 5. Refusing to allow parole officer(s) into the home for mandated inspection(s) (inspections as per the parole agreement) etc ?
Would it be 'ok' with you for the authorities to simply ignore the situation and allow it to go on indefinitely ?
Do you think the UN should enforce the terms of UN authored cease fire agreements or should they (we) simply sit on our hands while the aggressor nation (initially) blatantly violates the terms of said agreement ??
Yes, parolee = Saddam
House = Iraq
Gang = Iraqi military
Parole Officers = UN Inspectors
Contraband = oil
Backdoor = in violation of the UN sanctioned/imposed oil embargo
'Pot shots' etc = UN/US planes patrolling the 'No Fly Zone'
Refusing entry to Parole Officer(s) = Saddam kicking out UN Inspectors
Raping, robbing & murdering neighbors = Iraq invasion of Kuwait
Terms of parole = UN Cease Fire Agreement, Oil Embargo
Notice I didn't mention 'WMD's" ?? The existence of WMDs (or not) were a major source of disagreement between the UN Inspectors. But they were a distraction as no matter if they did indeed exist or not, the other violations were more than enough to make the case that Saddam/Iraq was in substantial violation of the 'Cease Fire Agreement' and the UN sanctioned/imposed 'Oil Embargo'.
And yes, it seems that a prior town mayor/administration of your little town awarded the parolee 'Man Of The Year' ... so what ? Hardly mitigating ... the problem at hand needed to be dealt with.
BTW, subsequently, the party you are more closely aligned with (a wild guess :-), prior to loosing election, stated that the parolee was not only dangerous but the biggest threat to law and order walking the streets.
Flossie, your comment is going on 5 years old but maybe you'll visit it again just for sh*tz and giggles ? Maybe 5 years on your opinion has changed ... dunno but I just had to respond. Oh, and give my best to Aunt Flo please ...
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Why is it assumed that everyone who is against abortion must belong to the religious right or must be "a Jesus freak"? I oppose abortion because my great grandmother begged my mother to abort me. Also because my mother went with my aunt to be with her when she had her abortion and my aunt and my mother both suffered a great deal of psychological trauma from the experience. In my aunt's case she became so guilt ridden that she turned to alcohol and is now a textbook alcoholic.
shareThat's a shame - truly. However, it's for everyone to deal with the ripple effect of their decisions. The true crime would be for your mother to not have had the choice in the first place.
Women who a desperate for abortions get them, whether they be in the safety of a clinic, or from some back-alley wack-job with a coat hanger.
enigmasangel:"I oppose abortion because my great grandmother begged my mother to abort me."
Whilst I agree that it was terrible for anybody to try to force your mother to have an abortion I feel your logic is flawed. If you had been aborted you would not be here to have an opinion. You would know nothing about it.
Do you remember being in the womb? I don't. Do you even remember being born?
You are regarding this issue whilst putting the mind of an adult into a foetus, which makes no sense.
enigmasangel, that is an utterly silly argument. I think abortion should never be permitted because it might have prevented my life. DUH! I am the fourth child of a catholic family, and my parents stopped following the church's directive on birth control after having their fourth child in 3.5 years. Should I thereby adopt an absolutist position on birth control because it might have prevented my birth?
shareWe don't just assume that. But it isn't hard to read between the lines. In any case, Glory to God as a username is kind of a dead give away.
shareJust because your grandmother begged your mother to abort you isn't grounds to impose reproductive slavery on women
shareIn my aunt's case she became so guilt ridden that she turned to alcohol and is now a textbook alcoholic.
Your aunt could just as easily have become a guilt-ridden alcoholic if she had the baby and put it up for adoption, or had the baby and found she had no interest/talent/time/funds for motherhood.
Just because your aunt's an emotional loser doesn't mean it should shape everyone else's life.
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No, not giving someone the choice in the first place would be the modern holocaust. After all, the Nazi's were all about taking choice away and forcing people to confirm into a nice little aryan package.
Nice try though...
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Why oh why are there religious nutters who keep saying that Abortion is evil !
Come on, we are in the 21 century ! Do these religious nutters go on about War, eating meat, killing inocent animals for profit, and hunting. I think not !
Abortion is a choice which woman don't take lightly. As it is legal, thank God, I wish they keep their mouths shut and talk about concerns which affect all of us, like Global Warming and ending suffering in African countries.
The best films are made in an intelligent format.
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abortion is WRONG.
abortion is killing, and that's why us religious people are against it [hence the 5th commandment 'You shall not kill']
abortion is commiting murder, no matter is teh victim is 1 month old.
Filthy, dirty, illegal, unhygenic back-alley abortions are murder commited by the one giving the mother abortion. Because she is more or less sure to die from bleeding to death afterwords.
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They blew up Congress!!! HAHAHA!
If the woman has become pregnant because she was raped, I don't think it is fair for her to go through with an unwanted pregnancy following the trauma of the event that caused it.
Rape is the only circumstance that I would ever come to close to agreeing with an abortion. Unless perhaps the mother-to-be was in danger of dying (without prejudice to whether this because of - or despite - her pregnancy).
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The problem being, women have a hard enough time as it is proving that they were raped. Making abortion legal only in cases of rape would just mean more invasions into the private life of women, and that's not a road we need to go down, in my opinion.
Another note - if abortion is outlawed, abortions will still occur. At a surprisingly high rate (judging by countries that have outlawed it.) And if it is outlawed, what do you propose we do to those who still get one? Should the woman (and the one who performed it) be fined? Should they be sent to jail? What if they already have multiple children to take care of - would that really be the best solution? Also consider the current state of overcrowding in our prisons.
Here's the thing - I think abortion is a very sad thing, and I wish no one would ever have to undergo the terrible process. But I still don't think it should be outlawed.
And for the OP - war is absolutely evil. Should we outlaw it?
Rape is the only circumstance that I would ever come to close to agreeing with an abortion. Unless perhaps the mother-to-be was in danger of dying (without prejudice to whether this because of - or despite - her pregnancy).
Try doing that with a deadbeat boyfriend who you've been trying to get to marry you for several years, whom you originally, with kindness and sympathy, allowed to move into your apartment "in between jobs" but has not had a job the entire time he's been living with you (living off of your income), and after being sweet talked into having unprotected sex (not raped but pushed a little bit).
Pregnancy with anyone other than the "one" who you know will stay by your side and commit to you and try his best for you can be traumatic. A woman is at her peak point of vulnerability when she's pregnant, and because of the way society is structured, her reputation and even her entire career could be on the line. It doesn't require the physical act of rape.
Some women, with a certain kind of tough upbringing, might very well be as mentally strong as the average man most of the time, but there is a time they are *definitely* weaker and need protection and nurturing from their partners, family, and/or community, and that's when they're pregnant. And society is not so kind. They can shun and condemn pregnant women when they're at the peak of their vulnerability. Businesses are becoming run increasingly optimally at cost to employees, demanding loyalty from their employees but not necessarily giving the same kind of loyalty back in return unless there's a business incentive to do so. If we had a more nurturing and rewarding society towards pregnancy and towards people and their hardships in general, women wouldn't be tempted to seek abortions in the first place. But having a society that rewards pregnancy isn't necessarily going to be so good either.
And passionate circumstances happen, and we know it, and we don't shun it, we applaud it. I don't know a single person, regardless of their stance on abortion and responsible relationships, watching Titanic and seeing Kate Winslet (Rose) and Leonardo DiCaprio (Jack, literally a starving artist) falling in love on a giant ship and shouting, "Boo! These are teenagers who don't know what they are doing! They're compromising their entire life with their sexual actions!" Instead we applaud because we all wish for a similar kind of romance and spice in our lives. Except Jack would be nothing but trouble in Rose's life. Furthermore, he died. It wouldn't work out so simply if she ended up carrying his child after the movie. It wouldn't be the fairy tale we wanted it to be: it would be a living hell.
We don't literally want a society where matches between partners are always chosen based on the most responsible, sensible conditions for a potential child, for the family, community. Otherwise we might as well go back to arranged marriages, since societies that do that often make wiser choices for everyone involved than ones that allow young people to decide who they sleep with.
Our society is still faintly echoing the original Biblical notions that women are men's property, cherishing virginity (the woman's purity fro the man), condemning "sluts" while rewarding promiscuity in men, etc. We still have those faint traces of the notion that women are there to serve men, their obedient slaves, and when you have that and the men can't even be responsible, women can get royally screwed if they get pregnant (as well as traumatized for their entire life).
We could say women should be more discriminating in their choices of men, favoring stable men with jobs and the willingness to commit over the deadbeat good-lookers who half-commit and are always between jobs. But both women and men often have an inherent fault in the way we choose our partners. Both men and women aren't always strong and make the right choices when it concerns people they're attracted to. Both of us operate by the same principles: we look at our available options, and if they're abundant, we're more discriminating (but still possibly not towards the wisest choice), if they're few in number, we get desperate in our loneliness and settle for something less than we expected, but still with a blind sense of optimism.
Life is not so simple, and any law which tries to simplify life to black and white, good vs. evil, is generally going to start off sounding very just but ultimately cause a lot of misery and grief. share