MovieChat Forums > Saw (2004) Discussion > So John was perfectly willing to let a l...

So John was perfectly willing to let a little girl die?


This has always bothered me. John gets very defensive when people say he's a murderer, and says he isnt because he gives his victims a chance, and they've all done something to deserve their trap.

But what did Gordon's family do? Especially his daughter. The rules were that if Gordon didn't kill Adam by 6, they'd die. John was fine with that? And it's not like he only said that to scare Gordon. Zep would have 100% killed her. It just makes no sense to me. John is a serial killer, but almost every victim you at least can say, "They did something bad". Even the police that he kills, he would justify it by saying they were trying to stop his mission. But an innocent little kid? It kind of ruins his character.

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Jigsaw's methodology is really just deluded belief. He's simply pissed about the way his life went down the drain and is taking it out on random people who has sinned in some way. He's forced his test subjects to murder mutiple times in the franchise and has used pawns for the sole purpose of other victims and sees all crimes as equal. He doesn't understand the true psychology of his nature and ways which makes him defy his own standards. Gordon's family are merely pawns to reflect his sin of supposedly having an affair.

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Hmm... I can justify this buttttt

Something tells me you havent watched the whole series.

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I have seen the whole series. It has been a while since I've watched it though, so maybe I'm forgetting something.

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I really think you are.

You are aware that there about 8 films right?

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Yes, I'm aware there's 8. I've seen all 8. Can you explain what I'm apparently forgetting then? Because it doesn't seem like you're able to.

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Lawerence was set up by jigsaw to become an apprentice.

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Yes....after he saw Lawrence's will and determination to survive. When he found Lawrence after cauterizing his cut off leg.

But regardless, that's not my point. Zep's task was to kill his wife and daughter if Lawrence failed to kill Adam. They were only saved by Tapp showing up and fighting and chasing Zep. If it wasn't for Tapp, Zep would have killed an innocent little girl, on John's orders. That is my whole point. That John was willing to kill a child.

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You dont know if zeke had pellets or was to be stopped just before he did the deed but in any case in John’s philosophy you did this to yourself.

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Don't over-analyse the Saw movies.

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Some of it is fun.

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Also wondering what Zep did to deserve that game. In the brief moment we see him earlier in the movie, he's kind. Essentially pointing out that John is a person, not just some specimen laying in a hospital bed to be learned from. Obviously John is the world's greatest detective and probably dug up some sort of dirt on him, but we never hear what it is. The game he is chosen to play is particularly cruel in killing a child. Maybe John thought he didn't have it in him. Either way, he's basically set up to be the fall guy, which really doesn't seem like something John's methodology would align with. That whole subplot just asks more questions than it answers, for sure.

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It's generally believed that Zep was chosen because he neglected his life in favor of getting involved with strangers. He was to kill two strangers that he presumably didn't know to save his own life. Once again, hardly a sin in anyway.

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